From: Glenn Morton (glennmorton@entouch.net)
Date: Thu Oct 09 2003 - 07:05:56 EDT
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
Behalf Of Fivefree@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:14 PM
I also think that this is a foolish statement 'God would not fool
scientists and if he did
he is unworthy of worship.' If creation isn't formed like I think it
should be than I quit. God says that he is honest, true and never, ever
changes. He does not fool anybody.
I have observed many here (and on other lists) who want hard answers in
response to a YEC position. Hundreds of billions (if not trillions) of
dollars have been spent on OE investigation and modeling by oil companies,
universities, governments, etc. Thousands have been spent on creational
modeling's. To expect complex answers to complex problems 'off the cuff' is
extraordinary to say the least.
GRM: It would be very nice to have YECs provide some answers to questions
like the fact that there are entirely too many fossil animals on earth to
have ever been contained in one single biosphere. And one can't give the
garbage that the former biosphere was more 'lush'. I have just re-evaluated
the quantity of chalk found in Europe. Chalk is 90% dead microscopic
animals. There is enough chalk in Europe to cover the earth to a depth of
between 3-6 meters. All over the earth.
GRM:There are 35 trillion short tons of coal on earth. That is enough
coal to cover the continents to a depth of 4 feet with nothing but solid
plant matter (no spaces, just solid compacted biomatter.
GRm:There are enough diatoms in the fossil record to cover the earth to a
depth of 20 meters.
GRM:If we are to lay off the YECs because we are asking them to explain
complex things, the above is a simple thing. Please explain how that happens
in a global flood in which one single biosphere was buried.
Jack Jackson continues:
The present may not be the key to the past. Nobody knows. I recall an
undergrad independent study (a 6 hour presentation!!) I did on the Geology
of Wyoming. The 1940s AAPG issues I read where mountain chain formation was
caused by the slow cooling of the earth and the planet was shriveling like a
raisin. State of the art science at that time. Thousands of feet of
Dolomites in the early Paleozoic compared to other segments of the geologic
column. Nobody knows why. Present geologic thought might someday be thrown
on its ear by some new revelation, maybe it is trying to be right now but
academic smothering and inertia is preventing it. Anybody remember Alfred
Wegener? Maybe plate tectonics isn't real after all, who knows. Can it
explain India breaking off from the super continent, drifting east and then
taking a hard left turn and ramming Eurasia? No, it can't. If it can't
explain that mechanism then it is an incomplete theory with flaws. Always
keep it in the back of your mind that you could be wrong. Dogmatism breeds
stagnation in humanity.
GRM: Of course we might be wrong. But have you ever tried to get a
young-earther to acknowledge an error of fact? I was told when I was a YEC
that overthrusts didn't exist. They do. I was told that the vapor canopy
would provide a warm environment for life before the flood. The truth is it
would be Venus like warmth. (see http://home.entouch.net/dmd/canopy.htm. You
should have seen the reaction to the article I published in CRSQ which
criticized the canopy. I was actually told that fossil webbed bird
footprints found in the Green river formation could not be animal tracks.
If you want, I can send you the picture.
So please back off YEC'ers some. Asking for all answers to all questions
in Geology/Biology makes you look like Gray Davis in the Calif. election.
Know it alls with a chip on your shoulder, and mean. Almost all in the pew
accept YEC. Maybe they all know something perceptually (spiritually if you
will) that the trained scientific mind cannot discern due to its training.
Virtually all science assumes there is no God of the bible. We all know that
and it is a basic assumption of all modern science. Perhaps we have been
immersed in scientific reasoning procedures and deductions for so long we
can't think in any path but the one we've been trained in. An established
paradigm is the killer of science whether it is AAAS, YEC, GSA or whoever.
GRM: As a former Young-earth creationist who published 30 articles in
young-earth creationist journals, I can tell you that they don't have a
single answer to geology. Not a single thing I was taught by YEC turned out
to be true if that concept differed from modern geologic ideas. In other
words, YEC doesn't even know what is in the geologic column but that doesn't
stop them from teaching what they think is there.
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