Re: RATE

From: Robert Schneider (rjschn39@bellsouth.net)
Date: Wed Oct 08 2003 - 15:05:14 EDT

  • Next message: Jay Willingham: "Re: RATE"

    Howard writes, in response to Josh:

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Howard J. Van Till" <hvantill@chartermi.net>
    To: "Josh Bembenek" <jbembe@hotmail.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
    Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:57 PM
    Subject: Re: RATE

    > >From: "Josh Bembenek" <jbembe@hotmail.com>
    > > JB: Unless, of course, Ken Ham was right when he repeated mulitple
    times that
    > > the problem is with Satan's clever trickery that has led the scientific
    > > community into a greivous error that directly contradicts "The Word Of
    God."
    > >
    > > Somehow, I tend to agree with Howard's analysis.
    > >
    > > Maybe someday those that are reading all my emails (one person whom I
    met)
    > > that I post to this list will actually respond to some of these issues
    > > instead of remaining anonymous and watching from the sidelines. Perhaps
    > > they can clarify in more detail exactly why informed judgement did not
    lead
    > > scientists away from the YEC theories, and how it was Satan.
    >
    Howard's response:

    > This suggests a question: Is it considered good Christian practice among
    > YEC's to demonize the opposition? That is, is it acceptable Christian
    > practice to ascribe the well-informed scientific judgments of professional
    > scientists (including the majority of the Christians who are professional
    > scientists) to the work of Satan? Did Mr. Ham offer any scriptural support
    > for this practice of Christian demonizing?
    >
    > Howard Van Till

    Bob's comment:

        Ham's claim that Satan has led the entire scientific community to hold
    scientific theories contrary to the beliefs of YEC is a way to avoid
    responding with logical and empirical arguments to show that these theories
    are themselves invalid. Instead of critiquing the arguments, one accuses
    scientists of being so intellectually blinded and rendered stupid by Satan
    that they can't see the errors of their theories--and thus it is another
    species of ad hominem argument. I think it is a more insidious form, as it
    is designed primarily as a scare tactic to keep Christians from listening to
    what the scientific community actually is saying and to think about it. Non
    believing members of the scientific community will scoff at it; and
    believers are likely to be indignant at this insult to their integrity.

        If there is scriptural support for Christian demonizing, it ought to be
    based on the writings of the NT. I get out my trusty concordance and check
    the references to Satan, demons, Beelzebub, etc., and what do I find? I
    find the Pharisees attempting to discredit Jesus by accusing him of casting
    out devils by Beelzebub/Satan (Matt. 12:22-37; Mk. 3:23-30; Lk 11:17-23),
    and Jesus showing of the illogic of their argument. Hardly a good model.
    None of the other refs. in the gospels and letters appear to have any
    bearing either on this matter.

        Unfortunately, there has been a long history of people in the Church
    accusing their opponents of being led by Satan. Some of the reformers and
    their opponents sadly are included. And think of the hundreds of men and
    women who were burned at the stake or otherwise executed on the charge that
    they were followers of Satan. Such events are rare in our time, thank God,
    though people have been harmed and even died of attempts to "drive the devil
    out of them," as recently happened in Milwaukee to a young autistic boy. As
    I've said in other situations to believers who evoke this argument, Satan
    must be delighted to see Christians taking his name in vain and stirring up
    conflict within the Body of Christ.

        Those of us who know that scientists love to argue and debate among
    themselves over the interpretation of data and the formulation of theories
    and hypotheses, including some in geology and evolutionary biology, may find
    it amusing to be told that they are all dupes of Satan, and thus presumably
    all think alike. The thought that these thousands of men and women have
    been led astray as a company simply defies belief.

        One might ask Christians who have been taught to believe this why they
    place so much faith in modern medicine and so many other goods to their
    lives that are shaped by developments based on an evolutionary understanding
    of life.

    Bob Schneider



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