From: pbrunt@xtra.co.nz
Date: Sun Oct 05 2003 - 21:10:40 EDT
Michael
Was Christ "Christian" to walk away from those who would not understand him?
Sometimes that is the only action to take.
Peter Brunt
>
> From: "Michael Roberts" <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
> Date: 2003/10/06 Mon AM 10:52:53 GMT+13:00
> To: "allenroy" <allenroy@peoplepc.com>,
> "Glenn Morton" <glennmorton@entouch.net>
> CC: <asa@calvin.edu>
> Subject: Re: RATE
>
> As McEnroe said on the tennis courts in Wimbledon, every time he did not
> like the umpire's decision, "You can't be serious!"
>
> Glenn's sound argument is simply met with made up nonsense and fairy tales
> to evade the force of his argument of a progression in age away from
> Kilaeua. Change in chemical composition my foot.
>
> I simply do not have the time to spend hours or days producing the argument
> needed when we all know that Allen simply will deny it, on some totally
> incoherent argument.
>
> Please Allen God gave you a brain, it ought to be used to his glory and not
> defending a fairy tale of plates whizzing round the earth like lumps of
> sodium in water. This is no better than von Danniken.
>
> I suppose someone will tell me how horrible I am and that my attitudes are
> not Christian!
>
> Michael.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "allenroy" <allenroy@peoplepc.com>
> To: "Glenn Morton" <glennmorton@entouch.net>
> Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 8:46 PM
> Subject: Re: RATE
>
>
> > Glenn Morton wrote:
> >
> > > >I simply asked for the evidence you said you had found and all I get is
> > > assertions and pontification.
> > >
> > > I am not sure what evidence you want,
> >
> > In the case being discussed, Roberts claimed that he had found 100
> misquotes by
> > Woodmorappe. I simply asked him to back up his claim. And he cannot or
> will
> > not supply it.
> >
> > You know, as well as I, that if I had made any such claim as Roberts made,
> that
> > you, and over a half-a-dozen others on this list, would jump on me with
> both
> > feet demanding my evidence. Yet, Roberts makes an unsupported assertion
> and no
> > one but me asks for his evidence. And when I do, I'm treated like I'm
> > questioning the Almighty.
> >
> > > The two models of the world, young-earth and old earth have differing
> > > predictions when it comes to the Hawaiian islands. The young-earth view
> has
> > > the islands forming about the same time--in the global flood. This model
> > > would predict that the islands should all look about the same.
> >
> > A Flood Cataclysmist view is that the Pacific plate moved NW across the
> volcanic
> > source/hot spot (or vice verse) during the Flood Cataclysm creating the
> islands.
> >
> > > As one goes further from Kilauea the elevation of the volcanoes gets
> lower and
> > > there is more evidence of erosion. All indicators agree that the farther
> north
> > > one goes along the chain the older are the volcanic islands.
> >
> > The oldest islands would would be the ones to the North. They would also
> be the
> > most eroded because they would have come up during the cataclysm, where as
> those
> > to the south came up during the latter, less catastrophic, stages of the
> flood
> > and finally the Hawaiian Islands may have come up afterward.
> >
> > > Why is there a systematic increase in age in the direction that
> continental
> > > drift is moving the ocean floor?
> >
> > The "increase in age" simply reflects the change in the chemical
> composition of
> > the volcanic source/hot spot as the Pacific plate moved across it (or vice
> > verse). There may have been a depletion of certain elements from the
> source
> > over a short time which gives the false impression of long time when
> interpreted
> > within isometric dating methodology.
> >
> > Allen
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > The old-earth view has the islands forming slowly over millions of years
> > > from a hotspot on the ocean floor. As drift moves the seafloor crust
> past
> > > the volcanic hotspot, the Hawaiian islands are carried northward. This
> model
> > > would predict that as one goes north, the radioactive dates should get
> > > older, the islands should be more highly eroded and thus topographically
> > > lower eventually disappearing beneath the waves as one goes north.
> > > What do we see? The table below shows a list of islands, their distance
> from
> > > Kilauea (the present site of the volcanic hotspot(Kilauea has been
> erupting
> > > nearly continuously from 1983). Kilauea is the tallest of the islands
> and
> > > the heights drop as one goes north. Volcanism also decreases as one goes
> > > north along the chain. Here is the table.
> > > Ages of some of the Hawaiian Islands and outer seamounts
> > >
> > > (see note at table bottom)
> > > Volcano Volcano Distance from Best K-Ar Data Source
> > > Number Name Kilauea along age (Ma) (tabulated below)
> > > trend of chain
> > > (km)
> > >
> > > 1 Kilauea 0
> -0.4 --
> > > 3 Mauna Kea 54 0.375 + 0.05
> 1
> > > 5 Kohala 100 0.43 + 0.02
> 2
> > > 6 Haleakala 182 0.75 + 0.04
> 3
> > > 7 Kahoolawe 185 > 1.03 + 0.18
> 3
> > > 8 West Maui 221 1.32 + 0.04
> 4
> > > 9 Lanai 226 1.28 + 0.04
> 5
> > > 10 East Molokai 256 1.76 + 0.04
> 3
> > > 11 West Molokai 280 1.90 + 0.06
> 3
> > > 12 Koolau 339 2.6 + 0.1
> 4,6
> > > 13 Waianae 374 3.7 + 0.1
> 6
> > > 14 Kauai 519 5.1 + 0.20
> 7
> > > 15 Niihau 565 4.89 + 0.11
> 8
> > > 15A Kaula 600 4.0 + 0.2
> 21
> > > 17 Nihoa 780 7.2 + 0.3
> 9
> > > 20 Unnamed 913 9.2 + 0.8
> > > Unnamed 930 9.6 + 0.8
> 22
> > > 23 Necker 1,058 10.3 + 0.4
> 9
> > > 26 La Perouse
> > > Pinnacles 1,209 12.0 + 0.4
> 9
> > > 27 Brooks Bank 1,256 13.0 + 0.6
> 20
> > > 1,330 13.0 + 0.6
> 22
> > > 30 Gardner
> > > Pinnacles 1,435 12.3 + 1.0
> 20
> > > 1,460 12.3 + 1.0
> 22
> > > 36 Laysan 1,818 19.9 + 0.3
> 10
> > > 37 Northampton
> > > Bank 1,841 26.6 + 2.7
> 10
> > > 50 Pearl and
> > > Hermes Reef 2,281 20.6 + 2.7
> 11
> > > 52 Midway 2,432 27.7 + 0.6
> 12
> > > 57 Unnamed 2,600 28.0 + 0.4
> 11
> > > 63 Unnamed 2,825 27.4 + 0.5
> 11
> > > 65 Colohan 3,128 38.6 + 0.3
> 13
> > > 65A Abbott 3,280 38.7 + 0.9
> 13
> > > 67 Daikakuji 3,493 42.4 + 2.3
> 14
> > > 69 Yuryaku 3,520 43.4 + 1.6
> 11
> > > 72 Kimmei 3,668 39.9 + 1.2
> 14
> > > 74 Koko
> > > southern) 3,758 48.1 + 0.8
> 14,15
> > > 81 Ojin 4,102 55.2 + 0.7
> 16
> > > 83 Jingu 4,175 55.4 + 0.9
> 17
> > > 86 Nintoku 4,452 56.2 + 0.6
> 16
> > > 90 Suiko
> > > (southern) 4,794 59.6 + 0.6
> 18,19
> > > 91 Suiko
> > > (central) 4,860 64.7 + 1.1
> 16
> > > Data Sources:
> > >
> > > 1. Porter and others (1977) 12. Dalrymple and others (1977)
> > >
> > > 2. McDougall and Swanson (1972) 13. Duncan and Clague (1984)
> > >
> > > 3. Naughton and others (1980) 14. Dalrymple and Clague (1976)
> > >
> > > 4. Mcdougall (1964) 15. Clague and Dalrymple (1973)
> > >
> > > 5. Bonhommet and others (1977) 16. Dalrymple and others (1980a)
> > >
> > > 6. Doel and Dalrymple (1973) 17. Dalrymple and Garcia (1980)
> > >
> > > 7. McDougall (1979) 18. Saito and Ozima (1975)
> > >
> > > 8. G.B. Dalrymple 19. Saito and Ozima (1977)
> > > (unpub. Data, 1982)
> > >
> > > 9. Dalrymple and others (1974) 20. Garcia and others (1986b)
> > >
> > > 10. Dalrymple and others(1981) 21.Garcia and others (1986a)
> > >
> > > 11. Clague and others (1975) 22. Garcia and Others (1987)
> > >
> > > Other Notes:
> > >
> > > "Volcano Number" refers to the number in sequence along the Hawaiian
> Chain.
> > > Loihi, the youngest expression of the Hawaiian hot spot is number 0,
> Kilauea
> > > is number 1, etc.. Note that not all volcanoes are listed in the table
> > > (e.g., number 2 = Mauna Loa and number 4 = Hualalai); also note that
> further
> > > up the chain, the numbering scheme becomes more subjective.
> > > http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/HCV/haw_formation.html
> > > accessed 10-3-03
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Why is there a systematic increase
> > > in age in the direction that continental drift is moving the ocean
> floor?
> > >
> > >
> > > Can anyone, without discussing my spiritual condition, explain this data
> > > within a global flood perspective?
> > > **
> > >
> > > [note] On theology web everytime I post scientific data, they cluck
> their
> > > tongues about my spiritual condition.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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