Re: homosexuality & holy war (was Re: Sin?)

From: George Murphy (gmurphy@raex.com)
Date: Tue Jul 29 2003 - 19:22:22 EDT

  • Next message: George Murphy: "Re: Sin?"

    RFaussette@aol.com wrote:
    >
    > In a message dated 7/29/03 4:43:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gmurphy@raex.com
    > writes:
    >
    > > The whole discussion of homosexuality on this list has focused on the
    > > question
    > > of whether or not homosexual activity can, to some extent, be accepted
    > > within the
    > > Christian church. At least that's what everybody else has been talking
    > > about, though
    > > with your obsession about Judaism maybe you haven't been. It's hard to
    > > tell. Anyway,
    > > that's the context in which my argument was presented. If Christians cannot
    > > use OT
    > > ideas of extermination of populations because they encourage reproductive
    > > success then
    > > they can't use the OT prohibition of homosexuality _on such grounds_.
    > >
    > > That's it, pure & simple. If your argument has in fact been, as it
    > > seems, that
    > > Christians cannot accept homosexuality on those grounds then it has in fact
    > > been blown
    > > out of the water. If that is not your argument then you need to be a lot
    > > clearer in
    > > what you say.
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Let's get out of communal religion. Let's stop talking reproduction.
    > Homosexuality is not religious. The ideal Jesus taught us was self discipline. There
    > is a reason for heterosexual couples to mate and that is procreation. To
    > fulfill our destinies in the manner God intended. Homosexuality is an ALTERNATE life
    > style, TANGENTIAL to the most basic of human imperatives - the only reason to
    > be homoseuxal is because you like it - it has no function other than pleasure
    > - harldy an exemplar of self discipline. hardly religious
    > rich
    >
    > ---------------------------------------------------------------
    > In a message dated 7/29/03 4:43:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
    > gmurphy@raex.com writes:
    >
    > The whole discussion of homosexuality on this list has
    > focused on the question
    > of whether or not homosexual activity can, to some extent,
    > be accepted within the
    > Christian church. At least that's what everybody else has
    > been talking about, though
    > with your obsession about Judaism maybe you haven't been.
    > It's hard to tell. Anyway,
    > that's the context in which my argument was presented. If
    > Christians cannot use OT
    > ideas of extermination of populations because they encourage
    > reproductive success then
    > they can't use the OT prohibition of homosexuality _on such
    > grounds_.
    >
    > That's it, pure & simple. If your argument has in fact
    > been, as it seems, that
    > Christians cannot accept homosexuality on those grounds then
    > it has in fact been blown
    > out of the water. If that is not your argument then you
    > need to be a lot clearer in
    > what you say.
    >
    >
    >
    > Let's get out of communal religion. Let's stop talking reproduction.
    > Homosexuality is not religious. The ideal Jesus taught us was self
    > discipline. There is a reason for heterosexual couples to mate and
    > that is procreation. To fulfill our destinies in the manner God
    > intended. Homosexuality is an ALTERNATE life style, TANGENTIAL to the
    > most basic of human imperatives - the only reason to be homoseuxal is
    > because you like it - it has no function other than pleasure - harldy
    > an exemplar of self discipline. hardly religious

            As I have said numerous times, I am not arguing for homosexuality, though I do
    think that the church needs to deal in a sensitive way with people who have a
    non-volitional homosexual orientation. What I have been arguing here is simply that the
    non-procreative aspect of homosexual activity, while not irrelevant to theological &
    ethical issues, cannot in itself determine the church's theological or ethical position
    or its pastoral practice. I doubt that it will be helpful for the 2 of us to debate the
    matter further here.

                                                    Shalom,
                                                    George

    George L. Murphy
    gmurphy@raex.com
    http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/



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