Re: Sin?

From: richard@biblewheel.com
Date: Wed Jul 23 2003 - 16:37:57 EDT

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    Hi Rich,

    In post http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200307/0485.html you wrote:

    >If there are metaphysics, then the same Law gets you into heaven.

    This prompted me to ask for a clarification on your postition on the Law,
    since the statement that "law gets you into heaven" seems blatantly
    contradictory to the fundamental message of the Gospel.

    You responded in post http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200307/0507.html,
    saying:

    >Yes, of course, the Law in and of itself gives nothing. Conforming to the
    Law gives life.

    This seems to suggest that Paul would make a distinction between "the Law"
    and "conforming to the Law." I find this difficult to understand in light of
    Romans 3.20:

    Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his
    sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

    It seems to me that Paul's reference to the "deeds of the law" corresponds
    exactly to your idea of "conforming to the law." Is this correct? And if so,
    does it not prove your point false?

    Also, we have the foundation of the Gospel to contend with. I speak of the
    general idea of Law versus Gospel, as seen for example in Rom 3.28:

    Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of
    the law.

    And again in Rom 4.5

    But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the
    ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

    Paul *contrasts* works of the Law with the Gospel of righteousness through
    faith. Your statement seems to be saying that the Law *IS* the Gospel. Could
    you clarify this for us?

    Now with regards to your explanation, you said:

    >The central demonstration of the technique of conforming to the Law was
    provided by Jesus who made the self sacrifice,

    Yes, self-sacrifice is taught as essential to the example given by Christ,
    as in I Peter 2.21:

    For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us,
    leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

    But I never thought of this as a *technique* of conforming to the law. Faith
    in God through Christ is the only way to heaven. Is this what you mean by
    "conformation to the Law?" If not, then it would seem that your argument has
    a fatal flaw. What I mean is that all the good works in the world, all the
    conformation to the law, will NEVER get you into heaven because the works of
    the Law can be done faithlessly by those who hate God and have no faith. The
    central issue is faith and the Bible consistently contrasts that with
    conformaty to the law. These are the issues that must be addressed if your
    argument is to advance amongst Gospel Christians.

    You also said:

    >The law does nothing without the self sacrifice.

    Actually the law seems very active apart from self-sacrifice. It is a Mirror
    (James 1) designed to expose our Sin (Romans 7). It brings sin to life and
    us to death, that all may be made guilty before God. The Biblical teaching
    seems supremely self-consistent with regards to the meaning and action of
    the Law and its relation to the Gospel, whereas your teaching seems to
    contradict both the letter and the spirit of Scripture on numerous points.

    I look forward to your response.

    B'Shem YHVH Tsidqenu,

    Richard Amiel McGough
    Discover the sevenfold symmetric perfection of the Holy Bible at
    http://www.BibleWheel.com



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