From: Graham E. Morbey (gmorbey@wlu.ca)
Date: Fri Jul 11 2003 - 12:32:59 EDT
Jay, may God save us all and bring peace to Jerusalem! I would like to
issue a word of caution. Have you investigated the origin of the Koran,
how Mohammad received his revelations over 22 years, the different
datings and the lack of references in the Koran to basic elements of the
Jewish/Christian story in both the Old and New Testaments? You will not
get this from the Koran itself. Just think, in the 7th century the Bible
had not been translated into Arabic! Mohammad only had oral traditions
to go on. A thorough knowledge of the Bible appears to be lacking. There
is more originality in the Koran than a hodge-podge of borrowed and
altered stories of the Bible. In no way am I defending the religion of
Islam but care must be taken in describing the views of others. A good
new reference to dialoguing with Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam is found
in Tennent's CHRISTIANITY AT THE RELIGIOUS ROUNDTABLE (Baker). There is
merit in George's remark on treating Islam as a Christian heresy.
Graham
Jay Willingham wrote:
>Some of these are quotes I used in my post, all of them I had read before
>and they reveal the subtlety of deception.
>
>They show Muhammad denied Christ was God and demoted the Jewish Messiah to a
>mere "apostle of Allah", while giving offhanded lip service to both.
>
>As God said, the descendants of Ishmael have become a mighty people at
>enmity with all around them. Jesus said many false prophets would arise and
>claim his place and that even the elect would be fooled if that were
>possible.
>
>Old Muhammad sure fits the bill of false prophet. Neat how the threshing
>floor David bought on top of Mt. Zion in Jerusalem became Muhammad's
>launching pad, the third most holy site in Islam and like the Ka'aba in
>Mecca, another place to exclude the infidel from.
>
>God save all the Muslims and bring peace to Jerusalem. Amen.
>
>Jay Willingham
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Glenn Morton" <glennmorton@entouch.net>
>To: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>; "Jay Willingham"
><jaywillingham@cfl.rr.com>
>Cc: "ASA" <asa@calvin.edu>
>Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 10:53 PM
>Subject: RE: Hell & MWH (Was Re: MWH experimental test)
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: George Murphy [mailto:gmurphy@raex.com]
>>>Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:36 AM
>>>To: Jay Willingham
>>>Cc: Glenn Morton; ASA
>>>Subject: Re: Hell & MWH (Was Re: MWH experimental test)
>>>
>>>
>>>Jay Willingham wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Where in the Qur'an or Sh'aria did you find any reference to Jesus
>>>>
>>>>
>being
>
>
>>>>accepted as the Messiah by Islam?
>>>>
>>>>
>>George obviously beat me to press here, but one can also see this in the
>>following passage which seems to indicate that they don't believe Jesus
>>
>>
>was
>
>
>>actually killed. But the passage calls Jesus the Messiah:
>>
>>"4.153": The followers of the Book ask you to bring down to them a book
>>from heaven; so indeed they demanded of Musa a greater thing than that,
>>
>>
>for
>
>
>>they said: Show us Allah manifestly; so the lightning overtook them on
>>account of their injustice. Then they took the calf (for a god), after
>>
>>
>clear
>
>
>>signs had come to them, but We pardoned this; and We gave to Musa clear
>>authority.
>>"4.154": And We lifted the mountain (Sainai) over them at (the taking
>>
>>
>of
>
>
>>the covenant) and We said to them: Enter the door making obeisance; and We
>>said to them: Do not exceed the limits of the Sabbath, and We made with
>>
>>
>them
>
>
>>a firm covenant.
>>"4.155": Therefore, for their breaking their covenant and their
>>disbelief in the communications of Allah and their killing the prophets
>>wrongfully and their saying: Our hearts are covered; nay! Allah set a seal
>>upon them owing to their unbelief, so they shall not believe except a few.
>>"4.156": And for their unbelief and for their having uttered against
>>Marium a grievous calumny.
>>"4.157": And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son
>>
>>
>of
>
>
>>Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they
>>
>>
>crucify
>
>
>>him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who
>>
>>
>differ
>
>
>>therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting
>>
>>
>it,
>
>
>>but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
>>"4.158": Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
>>
>>
>>and:
>>"5.75": The Messiah, son of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before
>>
>>
>him
>
>
>>have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both
>>
>>
>used
>
>
>>to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then
>>
>>
>behold,
>
>
>>how they are turned away.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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