From: PASAlist@aol.com
Date: Thu Nov 21 2002 - 04:26:34 EST
Sondra wrote,
<< I think you guys are being too hard on Jim. Although he sounds like he's
going more toward the atheist side than the agnostic. I think he has a right
to come to a conclusion based on his observations. You guys have a lot to do
with that, you know.>>
On Jim per se, see my comment in reply to him in Re: Genesis and cuneiform
tablets.
<<You prove everything about the Bible wrong and then
claim to believe in the God that it touts. If the book is wrong on one
account, who's to say it's not wrong about them all?>>
Not "everything" by a long shot. I don't think you meant that literally. As
to the Bible being wrong about one thing or even some things and the problem
which that makes for the rest of what it says, I think one should start with
the fact that nowhere in the Bible does God claim to be revealing scientific
or historical truth. 2Tim 3:16 says that every passage of Scripture is
divinely inspired, but the context limits the authority of Scripture to that
which makes the man of God competent and the wisdom which leads to salvation.
There is nothing in the text (or any other biblical text) which says or
logically implies that the Bible is a divine revelation of science or
history. So, if all of the science in the Bible is the science of the times
it is no reflection on God's revelation. The history in the Bible is almost
always attributed by the human author to human sources; so again, if there
are some mistakes, they do not reflect on God's revelation.
If all of the science in the Bible is the science of the times, I don't think
that bears on anything theologically anyway. It is just God adapting his
revelation to the scientific understanding of the people to whom he was
speaking. As to the history, one must decide on the basis of both internal
and external sources whether it is probably good history or bad. In this
regard, Gen 1-11 does not fare very well; but, most of the history in the
Bible does not have enough external data to either falsify or confirm it.
The real problem is that God did not accommodate his revelation just to the
science of the times, but sometimes to the morals of the times. Jesus, for
example, did not accept the implication of God's law in Deut 24:1-4 that
God's only concern about men divorcing their wives is that they made it legal
and did not remarry them again. Calvin was more distressed with the law in Ex
21:2-4 which said a male slave could go free at the end of 6 years, but if
his master had given him a wife, his wife and children would have to be left
behind. I have always thought that if slaying a person guilty of manslaughter
is unjust, as Deut 19:6, 10 admits, then allowing Israelites to kill such a
person if they caught him outside of a city of refuge as Num 35:26, 27
allows, is less than morally perfect. But, as Jesus implied, these laws were
concessions to man's hardness of heart (Matt 19:8/Mark 10:5.)
Nevertheless, If we can't trust the Bible at every point for morals, how can
we trust it for history and science or the rest of its moral teachings?
People addicted to black or white thinking have to go nuts or give up the
Bible altogether. The more sane answer is that black or white thinking is
neither biblical thinking nor intellectually mature. I spent a year studying
Jesus' approach to Scripture and it seems clear to me that he did not believe
every verse was in accord with God's perfect will (he saw God meeting the
people half-way), but he looked for and found overarching revelations, like
God as Creator, which is found all through the Bible. That is where he rested
his faith---so far as Scripture is concerned. But, not to be ignored was his
walk with God.
As you very nicely said in the latter part of your post, "There have been
times when it isn't a struggle though and I have seen, heard or felt God in a
tangible way. It's those times that give me the strength to get through these
times. It's the memories, it's their 'testimony' that I live by. I know it
all seems like hocus pocus, but I have
seen things happen with my own eyes or in my own life that have no scientific
or logical explanation. If those things can happen and science cannot explain
them, then it's feasible for me to believe that the rest is beyond
scientific, historic and logical explanation also."
It is this walk with God along with the overarching teachings of Scripture
which form the basis for true Christian faith. And, it is also important to
run the previous revelation in the OT through the grid of God's highest and
ultimate revelation, Jesus Christ and his teachings.
Paul
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