From: Walter Hicks (wallyshoes@mindspring.com)
Date: Fri Nov 29 2002 - 22:39:59 EST
Hi,
It's a bit late, but let me take a shot at this.
Implicit in all of this is that the Bible is a magic book and all else comes
from it. I would like to suggest that this is not true and may even be a
dangerous viewpoint. This is not really the place for a personal testimony, but
I'll give it too illustrate a different path.
I was raised as a Roman Catholic (never read Bible) and never new much of
anything else until I entered college. There I engaged in the usual "bull
sessions" with fellow students, often focused on religion. It
suddenly struck me
that the only reason that I believed what I believed was simply because I never
knew anything else. Without any conscious decision, all my previous faith
evaporated. It actually made me rather sad and I did pray to God, should He
exist, to show me that it was so. However, I was pretty convinced that it was
impossible to decide one way or the other. Not actually an agnostic, but rather
a "nothing".
For about a year, "searching" became an integral part of my life. Ultimately, I
became totally convinced that I had to reject atheism on purely moral & ethical
grounds. I became a theist just as involuntarily as I lost my original faith.
About a year later, while being somewhat inclined towards
Christianity, I met an
evangelical Christian. He bought me my first Bible and proceeded to
argue things
with me. Through these readings (new testament), his discussions, and
some other
books, I became a committed Christian.
Then what about the (OT) Bible? What does that have to do with my belief in and
commitment to Jesus Christ? Does it have to be the magic book to end all books
for my faith to be secure? I surely think not ! Sure, it is an inspired book
which conveys a lot of spiritual truths. The NT tells us of many things that
Jesus did and said, but I always felt that the 4 Gospels were not 100%
consistent and it did not really matter. What matters is Jesus Christ and that
the Bible points to him. Everything else is interesting but not necessary IMO.
I personally think that taking the Bible to be more that it claims to be for
itself only leads to confusion -- YEC, etc. -- and possibly to a loss of faith
when the book seems to fall short.
For Jim to make the trip from YEC to non YEC to agnostic may well be a good
thing. who is to say where that journey will end? His current agnosticism could
well be a process, not a final event in itself.
Well, That's just another opinion among many.
Walt
Sondra Brasile wrote:
> I think you guys are being too hard on Jim. Although he sounds like he's
> going more toward the atheist side than the agnostic. I think he has a right
> to come to a conclusion based on his observations. You guys have a lot to do
> with that, you know. You prove everything about the Bible wrong and then
> claim to believe in the God that it touts. If the book is wrong on one
> account, who's to say it's not wrong about them all? And what do you all
> base your belief in the God of the Bible ON? I've been wondering this for,
> OH, so long. Why DO you believe in the God of the fictitious book? Either
> it's right or he's a figment of all of our imaginations....right? At least
> it's probable; right?
> Jim has taken the next step and lost his faith in it all. He keeps making it
> sound like it's for selfish, self-serving reasons though, which I don't like
> the sound of, but I can see his point. I can see all of your points too.
>
> I wish I was better at explaining things like all of you, but what he has
> lost is his "faith" which is the evidence of things unseen. It is a
> "choice". For some reason you guys have chosen, against all of your evidence
> against it, to believe, to have faith. He has chosen to go with the logical
> explanation, that there is no God.
>
> Really, the only place to find any description, explanation or rules about
> God, is the Bible. If it's just a fairytale book then what makes any of
> those things real or relavant to me or my life? If you throw out the book,
> the who's to say that we have to even pay any attention at all to God or his
> rules? Who's to say he even cares...or exists? If Jim believes there is no
> God and therefore no real rules, no code of conduct. That doesn't
> necesssarily mean he's gonna' go nuts and start killing, raping and
> pillaging. He's gonna' make his stay here on earth as comfortable as
> possible. That includes, getting along with others, conforming to society
> (for the most part) and not breaking the law so he won't be thrown into a
> very real slammer. Jim has lost his faith, not his senses.
>
> Jim, for what it's worth, I'm sorry you've lost your faith. I haven't, but
> it's a struggle. There have been times when it isn't a struggle though and I
> have seen, heard or felt God in a tangible way. It's those times that give
> me the strength to get through these times. It's the memories, it's their
> 'testimony' that I live by. I know it all seems like hocus pocus, but I have
> seen things happen with my own eyes or in my own life that have no
> scientific or logical explanation. If those things can happen and science
> cannot explain them, then it's feasible for me to believe that the rest is
> beyond scientific, historic and logical explanation also. Can science
> explain everything that goes on in our brain? There are plenty of theories,
> but they just don't know. But it happens, I think, you think; our brains
> function without the explanation or understanding of modern science. Science
> cannot explain your brain, your sexuality, your emotions. Do they exist?
>
> Sorry if I sound like a blithering idiot guys, but thanks for giving me the
> time of day.
>
> Sincerely,
> Sondra
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
-- =================================== Walt Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>In any consistent theory, there must exist true but not provable statements. (Godel's Theorem)
You can only find the truth with logic If you have already found the truth without it. (G.K. Chesterton) ===================================
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Nov 30 2002 - 12:10:02 EST