From: Glenn Morton (glenn.morton@btinternet.com)
Date: Wed Nov 20 2002 - 14:54:14 EST
Peter wrote:
>Glenn,
>
>you claim to be able to turn any random sequence of any length into a
>meaningful one via a cypher code.
>
Yes, I can. I will explain a Vigenere code below.
>I think the critical question is whether you can do that if the target
>sequence (1) is unknown and (2) has at least 60 letters (using lower
>case only) and spaces (only one per word interval). All you know of the
>target sequence is that it must be a correct sentence in any known
>language. Can you do that with your computer? I don't care which (if
>any) code or program you use to transform your random letter sequences,
>as long as it doesn't contain any linguistic information.
This is totally irrelevant to the claim I am making which is simply
DEMBSKI's METHOD DOESN'T WORK!!!
I don't make any more claims than this. Everyone wants to discuss everything
EXCEPT Dembski's method but that is all I am discussing. If you want to
discuss other things, find someone else. Dembski's method can't detect
design because of the Vigenere code.
A Vigenere code takes a sequence like, "DembskisMethodDoesNotWork" and
encodes it using a keyword. I will use a key word of equal length:
"irkzxxurqoqmvithsduesecus"
Step 1, look at the lower case d at the top of the chart and then follow
that line down to the i.
Step 2. Go horizontal at the i back to the left and choose the letter at the
left hand column, which is an F. That is the first letter of the encoded
text. Repeat the process this time with e going down looking for r then
moving right to N. Coded sequence is below the chart.
Lower case is original plain text
a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t y v w x y z
B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A
C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B
D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C
E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D
F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E
G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F
H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G
I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H
J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I
K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J
L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K
M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L
N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M
O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N
P Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O
Q R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P
R S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q
S T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R
T U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S
U V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T
V W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U
W X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V
X Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W
Y Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X
Z A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y
A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
^
|
CODED
LETTER
If I do it right we will have
FNYYFNMZEKXFHFQTOLHQZIODI
as the coded text. If I am provided the keyword,
""irkzxxurqoqmvithsduesecus" I can run the problem backwards and find out
the intended message.
But, the beauty of a Vignere chart is that given any random looking
sequence, I can provide different keywords to turn the random sequence into
a meaningful sentence--ANY meaningful sentence.
Take the random sequence: uecraojnw
With the keyword, cpkbeqjgo, I turn the sequence into Ilikecats ('I like
cats').
But if I really don't like cats, I can cat around with the keyword and use
cpkberxto and turn the sequence into "Ilikedogs" (I like dogs). A mere
change of r to to v uses the keyword: cpkbevxto makes it "Ilikehogs"
Dembski can never rule out that there might be a Vigenere keyword for a spy
code for any sequence he plots out. Thus he can't detect design because he
can't rule out the existence of an infinitude of keywords which do exist and
might be DESIGNED to turn any sequence into a meaningful sentence.
One more example: I can use wvcqywmrn and turn the random sequence into
"CrazyIDer" (Crazy IDer) which is the way a person from Massachusetts would
say "Crazy Idea" which can be derived from the sequence by using the keyword
"orwvcqywmro". And crazy idea is what Dembski's is.
glenn
see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
for lots of creation/evolution information
anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
personal stories of struggle
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Ruest [mailto:pruest@pop.mysunrise.ch]
>Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 5:54 AM
>To: glenn.morton@btinternet.com; asa@calvin.edu
>Subject: RE: Dembski and Caesar cyphers
>
>
>
>
>Peter
>
>--
>Dr. Peter Ruest, CH-3148 Lanzenhaeusern, Switzerland
><pruest@dplanet.ch> - Biochemistry - Creation and evolution
>"..the work which God created to evolve it" (Genesis 2:3)
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