Re: Turkish Translator

From: Stuart d Kirkley (stucandu@lycos.com)
Date: Fri Jun 07 2002 - 13:48:45 EDT

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    Stuart Kirkley wrote:

    It is always wonderful to hear about God's grace answering our
    prayers, especially when the result is particularly remarkable. I
    would call this ocurrence a divine coincidence. As some of you know,
    I am a Cristian Scientist, and this type of incident is not at all
    uncommon to be heard of at Wednesday evening testimony meetings at
    Christian Science churches around the world. The Christian Science
    Publishing Society publishes a weekly, and two monthly periodicals
    which contain written testimonies from people from all walks of life
    who have experienced the wonderful divine grace of God's ever
    present supply of goodness in accounts like this one, and often even
    more remarkable ways, sometimes even astounding ways, including
    remarkable physical healings. I know that many remarkable experiences
    are witnessed by people of all faiths the world over on a daily basis
    as well. This is God's grace being asked for and received.
    There is nothing miraculous or supernatural about these occurrences
    when you understand the spiritual basis for them and the divine
    principle which governs them through eternally operative spiritual
    laws. Science will eventually shine the light on all phenomenon and
    noumenon as well, but science must be predicated on more than just
    material and physical laws if we are ever to fully understand these
    phenomenon, because they must have a spiritual basis and a
    metaphysical principle which underlies them, which is ever operative.
    These metaphysical principles and laws cannot be discerned through
    material methods, for they are not material in origin, but spiritual,
    mental, and metaphysically governed. Metaphysics is the last great
    frontier for science to explore and comprehend. It is also the most
    profound. Yet it is unfortunately often given short shrift by the
    physical sciences. There are definite metaphysical laws which govern
    the universe, else how can one explain the 'mighty!
      wo
    rks' which Jesus, the prophets, the apostles and other disciples
    effected. How do you explain the ability of Jesus to walk on the
    water. He was a flesh and blood human, yet somehow he performed this
    amazing feat. There must have been some science which enabled him to
    demonstrate his mastery over the physical world. Can it be explained
    by physical science alone? Do we just chalk it up to some
    supernatural, once in a lifetime miraculous event? How was Jesus able
    to consistently demonstrate his mastery over the physical world? How
    was he able to teach his students how to also perform such mastery?
    Was it magic? I think not, and any true scientist should never allow
    such superstition to magically explain phenomenon. Until we begin to
    give metaphysical science a serious look, instead of trying to
    explain things from a physical basis only, our search will come up
    fruitless, because we are dismissing the spiritual, mental and
    metaphysical causation of such things.
    When you prayed for the Turkish translator, this prayer was mental,
    was it not. There must have been some metaphysical law which was
    discerned, although probably faintly, which governed this occurence.
    I would hazard that it was a metaphysical law of attraction, a need
    was met through the ever operative divine law of demand and supply by
    the metphysical law of attraction. A mental, or spiritual request
    was made and a mental and spirtual supply was given to the demand.
    There are definite spiritual laws which govern the universe, I am
    quite sure of this, and 'miracles' can be explained by them. It is
    unscientific to simply dismiss them as supernatural occurences. But
    we need to look away from the material and physical world as the
    governing force, and look more to the metaphysical or spiritual realm
    as the real and substantial realm and try to comprehend the laws
    which govern it. This is the last great frontier of science. It has
    already been explored by some courageoous !
    pio
    neers who selflessly gave us their findings so that we can explore
    even further. Jesus was the greatest of these pioneers, yet he said
    "the works that I do, ye shall do also, and greater works than these'
    This was no idle promise. What was Jesus referring to when he said
    'Lo, I am with you always'? Not his physical body or person, for he
    ascended beyond our physical world or material comprehension. Yet he
    made this solemn promise. It must have referred to a divine
    influence, or metaphysical law, or science, which would be ever
    present for us to call on. Where is this divine influence? If it is
    metaphysical, it must be present in our consciousness. We just need
    to learn how to look for it. And this can only be done mentally, not
    physically.
    Anyone want to walk on the water? Peter tried and was moderately
    successful. Who's next? There may be raging storms of ignorance,
    doubt, scepticism, indifference, scorn, and contempt for this way of
    thinking, but the way has been shown. One has only to have a little
    faith, and follow his own desire to master the physical world, like
    Peter did. Do you have this desire? Do you have some faith? Then
    follow it, and you will be blessed, maybe even able to walk on the
    water.

    Sincerely,
    Stuart Kirkley
    >
    >Glenn Morton wrote:
    >
    >> David wrote:
    >> >-----Original Message-----
    >> >From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
    >> >Behalf Of D. F. Siemens, Jr.
    >> >Sent: Thursday, June 06, 2002 2:05 PM
    >> >
    >> >Do you remember Glen's encounter with a Turk and a translator? There is a
    >> >fully natural explanation, though not quite a strictly scientific one,
    >> >for it was a singular event. Each individual had a reason to be in the
    >> >terminal. Their interpersonal contacts were in no way out of the
    >> >ordinary. Normal is written all over the events. On the other hand, the
    >> >probability of such meetings in order to bring about the witness is
    >> >extremely low. So we are persuaded that God intervened. Yet there is not
    >> >the slightest indication of any variation in any natural law.
    >>
    >> I don't think Walter was on the list when I posted the Turkish translater
    >> event. I repost it below. It was originally posted to counter the common
    >> view that I am a deist. I am not. Of the other person mentioned in this
    >> post, I found Wayne since I posted this and he is the historian
    >> for the PCA church last we e--mailed each other. True story follows:
    >>
    >> >> The first time I went to Dallas, I was 19 years old. I went to a Campus
    >> > Crusade Christmas conference there. My best friend and college
    >>roomate was
    >> > with me. His name is Wayne Sparkman and I think he lives in Pittsburgh or
    >> > Philly now (I have lost track of him).Anyway, at 1 AM on a Thursday night
    >> >in Downtown Dallas at the Adolphus Hotel, a girl walked up to
    >>us and asked
    >> us
    >> > if we knew where she could find a Turkish translator. Of course, at 1 AM
    >> > most folks are asleep and we weren't from Dallas. Wayne asked why she
    >> > wanted one and the girl replied that they were trying to witness to a
    >> > Turkish fellow but he didn't know enough English and they didn't know any
    >> > Turkish. What made me say this, I don't know but I said, "lets pray about
    >> > it." I must tell you that there were two desks at the Adolphus at that
    >> time
    >> > (they have changed it), one ran east west and the other north south. I
    >> > prayed that the Lord would bring us a Turkish translator to the
    >> north-south
    >> > desk in 10 minutes. (Once again, I don't know why I was brazen enough to
    >> > pray that particular prayer). When we finished, Wayne said, 'Lets look
    >> > around.' I say (once again to my own surprise) lets wait, we
    >>have another
    >> 8
    >> > minutes. We waited. In 10 minutes a guy walked in from the street and
    >> went
    >> > to the north south desk. Wayne told me to go ask the fellow if he spoke
    >> > Turkish. I told Wayne that I couldn't do it. (I chickened out!) Wayne
    >> had
    >> > the courage to walk up and ask that guy if he spoke Turkish. He did!
    >> Wayne
    >> > brought him to the girl who took him over to where they were witnessing.
    >> > Wayne and I were amazed. So we hung around till they were through using
    >> the
    >> > translator to talk to the translator. The guy was a short order cook in
    >> > downtown Dallas. He got off at 12:30 and had never gone home the way he
    >> > chose to go that night. He ran out of cigarettes and came into the hotel
    >> to
    >> > get change so he could buy some(who said smoking was bad). He had been
    >> with
    >> > the airforce at Adana, Turkey (I recall) and worked as a translator. He
    >> > wasn't a Christian so he got witnessed to that night also.
    >> >
    >> > About a year later, I was working at the Okla. University Research
    >> Institute
    >> > in the Oil Information Center. We put oil production statistics into the
    >> > computer. They decided to branch out and help Wycliff develop their first
    >> > computer translation helps. A Dr. Joe Grimes (I believe) was the liason
    >> and
    >> > I asked him how many people in the U.S. spoke Turkish. He said
    >>that about
    >> > 5000. When you figure out what percentage were probably asleep
    >>at 1 AM and
    >> > what percentage were in Dallas, it was truly amazing to find one of them
    >> in
    >> > a 10 x 3 foot area of Dallas after that 10 minutes had passed.
    >> >
    >> > So, Burgy, (and Steve Peterson), I do believe that God
    >>interacts TODAY. My
    >> > objection (and I suspect Howards and George's) to ID is that it is
    >> entirely
    >> > a cop out to have God solve the scientific problems so that particular
    >> > theological viewpoints can be maintained. It is asking God to
    >>dance to our
    >> > music rather than us dancing to His.
    >> >
    >> > Please try to remember that I am not a deist.
    >>
    >> glenn
    >>
    >> see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
    >> for lots of creation/evolution information
    >> anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
    >> personal stories of struggle
    >>
    >> >
    >
    >
    >
    >--
    >===================================
    >Walt Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>
    >
    >In any consistent theory, there must
    >exist true but not provable statements.
    >(Godel's Theorem)
    >
    >You can only find the truth with logic
    >If you have already found the truth
    >without it. (G.K. Chesterton)
    >===================================
    >

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