Vernon,
Your questions are worthy of an answer. However I unfortunately don't have
the time right now to answer them with the detail and careful attention they
deserve. In fact, I have plans (God willing) to write a book that will
explain some of these issues at some point in the relatively near future.
And that is part of the dilemma also -- the questions deserve a book to
answer them! Its not something I could (well I could, but...) answer in a
quickie email. Also, though I've been sending along my 0.02 here and there I
really have a lot of work to do that I'm getting sidetracked from that is
demanding my attention.
One question -- are you interested in knowing the answers because you want
to convince me that my position is invalid, or are you truly interested in
knowing how I (or you or another Christian) can hold to an evolutionary
creationists perspective? Because if you already have your mind made up then
no argument, no matter how powerful or logical or rational or backed by
evidence, will convince you.
Ultimately, I believe evolution and creation are not crucial theological
issues (though some may argue because of Christ and Adam etc it is...). I
think obviously one position is "wrong" but I don't think God will "punish"
anyone for having the wrong idea. I think its far more important to love and
be kind and forgive others and teach these things than it is to have all our
theological issues correct and all nicely packaged. Intellect and
intellectual discussions are great for those so inclined as we are, but we
Christians should never let them come before the primary goals of loving,
and teaching others how to love.
Regarding your dog-eat-dog scenario -- I sent one reply to the list about
this, did you see it? Humans are different than the rest of creation by the
spirit God gave us. And sin is in the world, we all know, so to me the
dog-eat-dog issue is not "surprising." CS Lewis has a good discussion in the
Problem of Pain on both human and animal pain, because he thought them
worthy of thought and discussion. I'd suggest taking a look because I
generally tend to agree with everything he wrote! He accepted evolution.
Finally your questions are indeed interesting theological questions worthy
of consideration. But personally (since you asked me, that is) I think that
we can't interpret reality based on our understanding of the Bible or we get
into the same kind of trouble that earth-centered universe people did. They
fight and fight but they still ended up wrong. They lived and died and never
knew the "truth" but well, one, I'm sure it didn't matter in the scheme of
their salvation unless it affected their level of pride, and two, they could
have done better by just humbly accepting the mystery of "not knowing"
because there are many spiritual mysteries that we humans just will never
have the complete understanding of, or even ability to understand (like the
100% man, 100% God -- we can intellectually say it but we still can't fully
grasp it -- but I'm ok with that, as most Christians are). We have to be OK
accepting a lot of mystery. There may not be clear-cut answers to every
single theological issue that relates to truths uncovered about the natural
world by science. Either they will be revealed to future generations, or
hopefully in heaven!
I'm going to save your message so that when I begin work on my book, I can
further discuss this with you.
My best, Wendee
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Wendee Holtcamp -- wendee@greendzn.com
Environmental Journalist ~~ www.greendzn.com
Adjunct Instructor of Biology, Kingwood College
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
-----Original Message-----
Hi Wendee, thanks for writing.
I see a number of dilemmas facing evolutionary creationists like yourself
and, if I may, will introduce a few more following my answer to your
specific question.
The matter I raised in an earlier post was this: "Is it reasonable for the
Christian to believe that Our Creator - Jesus Christ - the 'King of Love'
(as we frequently sing) would slowly bring all things into being by a
dog-eat-dog process - the latter stages of which would most certainly have
involved human conflict - the antithesis of love?" I suggest it is most
unreasonable [surely confirmed by His response to Cain's killing of
Abel(Gen.4)]. Is it really possible that from the Mind of the One whose
essential teaching was based on love, and who Himself was the supreme
example of substitutionary sacrifice, has also come such a loveless and
bizarre means of creation?!
The second dilemma that confronts the thinking Christian evolutionist
concerns the termination of the creation process. As far as the Scriptures
are concerned, we are left in no doubt: all was accomplished in 6 days
(however we care to interpret 'day').
Gen.2:1 and Ex.20:11 are the relevant verses. On an evolutionary
understanding of course the process is _interminably ongoing_.
The third dilemma again arises as a rider to the first. In the Bible's
closing chapters we are given a glimpse of the promised _new creation_. It
is natural that we enquire whether this is also to be accomplished by a
process of evolution. But, clearly not! It is described as an immediate and
finished work.
The fourth dilemma concerns the Flood. Evolutionists must believe it was
_local_. However, if that be true it is pertinent that we ask why God
required Noah to build so massive a sea-going structure to save himself, his
immediate family, and representatives of all the created animal kinds, when
there would have been ample time available for a much simpler escape to
higher ground by foot! And, anyway, how are we able to reconcile the notion
of a local flood with such verses as "And behold, I, even I am bringing the
flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath
of life, from under heaven." (Gen.6:17)?
And if one is still not convinced that the Flood was most certainly
_global_ (in every way), then consider the events attending its sequel -
God's covenant with Noah. The rainbow was given as a sign that God would
never again send a flood to destroy _all flesh_(Gen.9:15). Clearly, there
have been many local floods worldwide since the days of Noah. It must surely
follow that the _mabbul_ was no local flood. Indeed, scripturally, this
Hebrew word is only used of Noah's flood.
The New Testament references (Mt.24:37-39, Lk.17:26-27, 2Pe.2:5) serve to
put the final nails into the coffin of this _pillar_ of evolutionary dogma.
Sincerely,
Vernon
Wendee Holtcamp wrote:
Vernon Jenkins wrote:
> You appear to have ignored the point I was making regarding
> the Christian
> evolutionist's dilemma, viz that
> He who said 'Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself' also
> happens to be Our
> Creator, and if evolution indeed
> be a reality, then how is He to be trusted when claiming to be 'the
> way, the truth,
> and the life...' (Jn.14:6)?!
> Christianity and evolution are thus mutually exclusive.
Can you explain why you believe that "love your neighbor as yourself"
contradicts with evolution? I am interested in your meaning behind that
because I didn't understand. You mention a dog-eat-dog idea of
evolution --
is that what you mean? If so, are you considering animals and plants to
be
our neighbors? Because if you're referring to humanity, evolutionary
creationists (like myself) can believe that God imbued a spirit into
humans
at some point that differentiates us from the rest of created beings. It
is
this Spirit that allows us to transcend the dog-eat-dog nature that we
indeed do see even among humans (look at the fundamentalists Muslims
hating
the Jews and murdering themselves to kill them, or the fighting between
the
Indian Hindus and Muslim Pakistanis right now, or the murders at
Columbine).
It requires transcending our human nature to grow into our spiritual
nature.
We can be 100% human and 100% spiritual beings, just as Jesus was. We
are
not God but we have His Holy Spirit within us, and are His sons and
daughters.
Just my thoughts. Would be curious what others think of them.
Wendee
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Wendee Holtcamp -- wendee@greendzn.com
Environmental Journalist ~~ www.greendzn.com
Adjunct Instructor of Biology, Kingwood College
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sat Jun 08 2002 - 02:27:22 EDT