Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Griffin #2]]

From: george murphy (gmurphy@raex.com)
Date: Mon May 28 2001 - 20:45:46 EDT

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    Michael -
            I don't think you're being quite fair to the OED here. Its function (&
    that of dictionaries in general) is to give the meanings of words as they are
    actually used. & it is indeed one common understanding of "miracle" in the
    Christian tradition that it is an event which is beyond the capacity of created
    agencies even with divine cooperation. This was the view of Aquinas, e.g.
            Having said that, we also have to realize that the Bible gives no
    precise definition of the types of events which can be described as "miracles."
    Moreover, in none of the accounts of things we would commonly describe as
    "miracles" does the Bible tell us that God acted in an unmediated way & not
    through cooperation with any creature. All these events of course _are_
    understood to be due to God's action, but so is the "natural" growth of grain in
    the fields.
            Thus there is no compelling theological reason to say that any events
    which have taken place in the world are beyond the capacities of "the operation
    of any natural agency" _in cooperation with God_. Of course _without_ divine
    cooperation no natural agency would be able to accomplish anything or even
    exist.

    Shalom,

    George

    George L. Murphy
    http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
    "The Science-Theology Dialogue"

    "M.B.Roberts" wrote:

    > Dictionary definitions are often inadequate as is this one . Here miracle is
    > defined as the suspension of natural law and an intervention. This owes more
    > to David Hume than Christian theology or the Bible.
    >
    > In his Gsopel John talks of signs not miracles and expalnations are not
    > sought - as befits a pre-scientific era. When we look at the biblical
    > miracles we will find some can be given a "rational" explanation others
    > cannot . BOTH are miracles and SIGNS of God's activity.
    >
    > If we follow Hume we will begin to deny God's everday involvement in the
    > world and restrict him to interventions thus making him a God of the Gaps -
    > which Creationists and Intelligent designers tend to do.
    >
    > We should let the Bible and Christianm thought set the definition of Miracle
    > and not David Hume or some compiler of the OED who probably knows nothing
    > about God and cribs his definition from elsewhere.
    >
    > Michael Roberts
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Robert Miller" <rlmiller@gilroy.com>
    > To: "Howard J. Van Till" <hvantill@novagate.com>; <asa@calvin.edu>
    > Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 2:39 AM
    > Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Griffin #2]]
    >
    > > Hi Howard,
    > >
    > > It always comes down to definitions doesn't it? I will use the OED's
    > > definition as sufficient for my post.
    > >
    > > Miracle - A marvelous event occuring within human experience, which could
    > > not have been brought by
    > > human power or by the operation of any natural agency, and must therefore
    > be
    > > ascribed to the special
    > > intervention of the Deity or of some supernatural being; chiefly, an act
    > > (e.g. healing) exhibiting control
    > > over the laws of nature and serving as evidence that the agent is divine
    > or
    > > is specially favored by God.
    > >
    > > Intervene - To come in as something extraneous, in the course of some
    > > action, state of things, etc.

    ...........................



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