RE: [Fwd: [Fwd: Griffin #2]]

From: Joel Z Bandstra (bandstra@ese.ogi.edu)
Date: Thu May 24 2001 - 16:05:05 EDT

  • Next message: Blaine D. McArthur: "George Hammond"

    George makes the point that theory enters the data collection process at
    the interpretation stage. I would add that theory enters also into the
    matter of what data to collect and consider. That is, deciding what
    experiments to perform is itself a subjective process. Subjectivity and
    value ladeness are present in all aspects of the scientific enterprise;
    from deciding what questions are interesting to conceptualizing experiments
    to building an apparatus to interpreting the output etc.

    There is, however, something to what Moorad is putting forth in that there
    is something objective about science (especially the data collection part)
    that sets it off from other human activities. This, perhaps, because it is
    a fairly easily taken assertion that the data are the same to all people.
     If the signal was 0.2 amps to me, it is so to you as well.

    Still, I'm not sure what Moorad is pushing towards in saying that data
    collection is objective. Moorad, care to elaborate?

    -----Original Message-----
    From: george murphy [SMTP:gmurphy@raex.com]
    Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:53 AM
    To: Moorad Alexanian
    Cc: Lucy Masters; asa@calvin.edu
    Subject: Re: [Fwd: [Fwd: Griffin #2]]

    Moorad Alexanian wrote:

    > It is impossible for me to do science or just be a plain, ordinary human
    > being and not believe in a Creator. That is the tenure of my first
    sentence.

            This is your own self-understanding, with which I have no argument.
     It
    is clearly not the self-understanding of many other people, including a lot
    of
    competent scientists. & I think there's no compelling theological reason
    why it
    should be.

    > The statement I make is that the data for science is collected
    solely
    by non-human devices, viz. >mechanical, electrical, etc. Needless to
    say,humans
    design those devices, which are theory laden, >but the data itself is still
    collected by devices that do not include man as a "detector." Moorad

            1) Doesn't data gathered by naked eye (or ear &c) observations
    qualify? & even though astronomers seldom actually look through their
    telescopes, they do look at photos, CCD readouts &c.
            2) Theory doesn't just enter in the construction of instruments,
    but in
    inferences from the readings of instruments. As in my previous example,
    what is
    actually seen in a bubble chamber photo is swirly lines. The data usually
    reported, that certain reactions take place in protons-antiprotons
    collisions or
    whatever, requires a lot of theoretical inferences.

    Shalom,

    George

    George L. Murphy
    http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
    "The Science-Theology Dialogue"



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