Re: Distal vs. proximate: Timing of design

From: Jonathan Clarke (jdac@alphalink.com.au)
Date: Tue May 08 2001 - 05:23:00 EDT

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    Hi Bob

    RDehaan237@aol.com wrote:

    > In a message dated 5/5/01 7:38:28 PM, jdac@alphalink.com.au writes:
    >
    > << Hi Bob
    >
    > You quoted Bill Dembski's definition of design in his soon to be
    released
    book
    > (how did you get a copy?) "No Free Lunch" >>
    >
    > Hi Jon,
    >
    > Bill posted a review of his book on the phylogeny listserve. If you
    are
    > interested in a copy of the whole preview I will be glad to ask his
    > permission to e-mail it to you.

    Thank you, yes.

    >
    >
    > You wrote: "but not ask why the ID community similarly sees a
    discontinuity
    > between biological and non biological causality, even though the core
    principles
    > of
    > ID as he has articulated them no not postulate such a discontinuity."
    >
    > I'm probably over my head here, but I expect that IDers such as
    Dembski
    would
    > say that the non-biological universe can be explained by physical and
    > chemical laws, but that the biological world cannot. Would you not
    agree
    > with that?

    I think you are right. The question is why? What bugs me is the
    unexplained
    inconsistency. ID folk seem to accept physical reductionism, and don't
    make much
    of an issue even when people like Weinberg extend it to metaphysics,
    though
    this
    is just as erroneous as doing so with biology. Why are biological
    systems
    given
    different status?

    I would take it further, and say that the ID movement seems accept to
    reductionism
    in biological systems - biochemistry, biophysics, genetics, etc. But
    can't
    accept
    it with biological diversity. Once again, why? Is it because of a
    closet
    vitalism? Is it because they accept the "nothing buttery" of the
    extension
    of
    biological reductionism into metaphysics but disagree with the
    conclusions?
    Is it
    because of theology? is it because as most are Christians and
    Christians
    have
    traditionally supposed to be against evolution?

    > Or at least would you not agree that up to the present time
    > scientists have not been able to explain life by chemical and physical

    laws?
    > I think the discontinuity is an empirical matter, not one of
    principle.

    It depends what you mean by "explain life"? Much has been learned in
    the
    areas of
    biochemistry, physiology, biophysics, genetics, palaeontology, and
    ecology.
    So we
    understand a great deal about what organisms are made of, how their
    physical and
    chemical constituents interact, how these are built up into tissues,
    organs, and
    whole systems, how they reproduce, interact, and what is their history
    through
    time. There is still much much to learn of course. How is different
    for
    any
    other science? We have learned a great deal about the subatomic world,
    but
    not
    everything.

    However you seem to be using "life" to mean some kind of mystical force
    that is
    not explainable by physics or chemistry. Why?

    Jon



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