Re: Waco, final comments

From: George Murphy (gmurphy@raex.com)
Date: Fri Apr 28 2000 - 21:44:56 EDT

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    glenn morton wrote:
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>
    > To: "glenn morton" <mortongr@flash.net>
    > Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
    > Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 12:40 PM
    > Subject: Re: Waco, final comments
    >
    > > Glenn - Appreciate your summary. A couple of comments on your remarks
    > which I paste
    > > together from a couple of posts. (Is there a reason I got no "Waco, Day
    > 2" - other
    > > than perhaps an inadvertent hit on the delete button?)
    > >
    >
    > This has been the weirdest set of posts I have done. Day 1 didn't leave me
    > and had to be split. Day 2 went out--some got it some didn't. (it can be
    > found at http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200004/0157.html ) I hope
    > everyone got Day 3.
    >
    > > glenn morton wrote:
    > > .....................................
    > >
    > >
    > > > As I mentioned in my report, one Christian stood by the elevator in
    > order to
    > > > tell my agnostic friend Frank, that Schaeffer was not the best Christian
    > > > apologetics has to offer. Unfortunately, my feeling is that Schaeffer
    > just
    > > > may have been the best and when exposed, it is an embarrassment to look
    > in
    > > > the mirror.
    > > Is it possible that what the conference displayed was the weakness of the
    > whole
    > > approach of evidentialist apologetics & its implicit presupposition of
    > independent
    > > natural theology? (As you may guess, that's a rhetorical question.)
    > N.B., of course I
    > > don't mean that an apologetic, or theology in general, should make no
    > appeal to evidence
    > > at all! I refer again to my paper at last year's ASA meeting, which is
    > (I'm told) to be
    > > in the September _Perspectives_, as at least a pointer to an alternative.
    > > The inevitability of the result seems to have been built in because of the
    > > absence (from what I could tell from your report) of professional
    > theologians - or of
    > > any I recognized. "Of course - it's a science conference." Exactly, & so
    > what it'll
    > > produce is science &/or philosophy of science - & perhaps ill-advised
    > attempts to jump
    > > the gap to theology. (That without intending disrespect for Christian
    > philosophers -
    > > but that ain't the same enterprise.)
    >
    > First, the problem is not one of citing evidence. The problem is citing
    > WRONG OR FALSIFIED evidence, which is what many in the ID and YEC groups
    > do. My comments about Dembski's missing knowledge about genetic algorithms
    > and Meyer's insistence that one can look at a sequence and tell it is
    > specified when spy-codes are designed to make a specified sequence look
    > random are cases in point. (and computers talk to each other in sequences
    > that would not look very specified to a human. As to the missing
    > theologians, I feel confident that they were not asked in for a reason--the
    > ID group wants to deal with science not theology. And frankly, I agree with
    > their approach here. With few exceptions (you being one of them) I don't
    > think theologians know enough science to punch their way out of a paper bag.
    > They don't know anything about it or how it should relate to theology and
    > their presence at the Baylor conference would merely have made us look even
    > worse. (sorry to any offended theologian's sensibilities, but I have found
    > that most avoided science in college and then preach with certainty about
    > things which they know not!)

            Thanks for the compliment but Russell, Peters, Pannenberg, Barbour, Hefner,
    Polkinghorne, Jaki, & Peacocke for starters are better known than I & certainly don't
    match your description.
            You're right that the ID people want to to avoid theological discussion, as I
    can affirm from my experience of submitting a paper with theological discussion of the
    design concept to _O & D_. I suspect that the reasons for this are
            a) a desire to play the "nobody here but us scientists & philosophers" game &
            b) a desire not to have their theologies subjected to serious criticism.
                                                                    Shalom,
                                                                    George
                                                            
    George L. Murphy
    gmurphy@raex.com
    http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/



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