Re: Waco, final comments

From: glenn morton (mortongr@flash.net)
Date: Fri Apr 28 2000 - 14:21:04 EDT

  • Next message: George Murphy: "Re: Waco, final comments"

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>
    To: "glenn morton" <mortongr@flash.net>
    Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>
    Sent: Friday, April 28, 2000 12:40 PM
    Subject: Re: Waco, final comments

    > Glenn - Appreciate your summary. A couple of comments on your remarks
    which I paste
    > together from a couple of posts. (Is there a reason I got no "Waco, Day
    2" - other
    > than perhaps an inadvertent hit on the delete button?)
    >

    This has been the weirdest set of posts I have done. Day 1 didn't leave me
    and had to be split. Day 2 went out--some got it some didn't. (it can be
    found at http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200004/0157.html ) I hope
    everyone got Day 3.

    > glenn morton wrote:
    > .....................................
    >
    >
    > > As I mentioned in my report, one Christian stood by the elevator in
    order to
    > > tell my agnostic friend Frank, that Schaeffer was not the best Christian
    > > apologetics has to offer. Unfortunately, my feeling is that Schaeffer
    just
    > > may have been the best and when exposed, it is an embarrassment to look
    in
    > > the mirror.
    > Is it possible that what the conference displayed was the weakness of the
    whole
    > approach of evidentialist apologetics & its implicit presupposition of
    independent
    > natural theology? (As you may guess, that's a rhetorical question.)
    N.B., of course I
    > don't mean that an apologetic, or theology in general, should make no
    appeal to evidence
    > at all! I refer again to my paper at last year's ASA meeting, which is
    (I'm told) to be
    > in the September _Perspectives_, as at least a pointer to an alternative.
    > The inevitability of the result seems to have been built in because of the
    > absence (from what I could tell from your report) of professional
    theologians - or of
    > any I recognized. "Of course - it's a science conference." Exactly, & so
    what it'll
    > produce is science &/or philosophy of science - & perhaps ill-advised
    attempts to jump
    > the gap to theology. (That without intending disrespect for Christian
    philosophers -
    > but that ain't the same enterprise.)

    First, the problem is not one of citing evidence. The problem is citing
    WRONG OR FALSIFIED evidence, which is what many in the ID and YEC groups
    do. My comments about Dembski's missing knowledge about genetic algorithms
    and Meyer's insistence that one can look at a sequence and tell it is
    specified when spy-codes are designed to make a specified sequence look
    random are cases in point. (and computers talk to each other in sequences
    that would not look very specified to a human. As to the missing
    theologians, I feel confident that they were not asked in for a reason--the
    ID group wants to deal with science not theology. And frankly, I agree with
    their approach here. With few exceptions (you being one of them) I don't
    think theologians know enough science to punch their way out of a paper bag.
    They don't know anything about it or how it should relate to theology and
    their presence at the Baylor conference would merely have made us look even
    worse. (sorry to any offended theologian's sensibilities, but I have found
    that most avoided science in college and then preach with certainty about
    things which they know not!)

    glenn

    Foundation, Fall and Flood
    Adam, Apes and Anthropology
    http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/dmd.htm

    Lots of information on creation/evolution



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