In a message dated 10/22/2000 7:47:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
DNAunion@aol.com writes:
> DNAunion: All life requires that it actively maintain itself far above
> thermodynamic equilibrium. For an acorn to grow into an oak, it must fight
> against, and "overcome", entropic tendencies at every moment along the way.
> This example does not contradict my statements.
>
Exactly. This far for equilibrium thermodynamics is exactly what drives
evolution and creation of completity. So what does this show?
[...]
DNAunion: Hurricanes are not organized, just ordered. Being organized is a
higher state than being ordered, as organization implies multiple parts
operating together as a whole. A pile of leafs is ordered, but not
organized. A car's engine (or a cell) is both ordered and organized.
Where in the SLOT is it concluded that organization is a relevant term?
[...]
>>>FMAJ: So show how specified complexity cannot be formed by evolutionary
pathways?
>>>DNAunion: I already gave a general example: the latest issue of "Origins
of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere".
*************
DNAunion: No response here by David Bowman?
*************
As Wesley has shown evolutionary algorithms can generate specified complexity
that cannot be distinguished from what Dembski seems to refer to as actual
specified complexity. So where is the evidence that evolutionary pathways
cannot generate exactly this specificity?
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=532248147
http://inia.cls.org/~welsberr/ae/dembski_wa/sc_resp_wre.html
http://www-lecb.ncifcrf.gov/~toms/paper/ev/
"ev : Evolution of Biological Information by Tom Schneider, Nucleic Acids
Research, 28(14): 2794-2799, 2000. Not directly commenting upon Dembski, but
it does directly contradict Dembski's claims concerning information increase
via evolutionary computation. "
All links can be found at
http://inia.cls.org/~welsberr/ae/dembski_wa.html
DNAUnion:Now David. I have provided several biological examples that clearly
show
that there *is* something that opposes matter's becoming organized in complex
ways in relation to biology. Proteins decomposing spontaneously; amino acids
not polymerizing spontaneously; monosaccharides not linking spontaneously;
There are similarly plenty of examples where spontaneous reactions occur in
either direction. But what you have to show is what happens at far
equilibrium. Here interesting things happen: complexity increases.
That you have found instances in which there is an opposite trend is hardly
surprising, life is full of generation and decay. Why focus only on the
latter one?
[...]
DNAunion:
If so, then you would still be agreeing that there is something that opposes
matters
being organized in complex ways, just that that something is not
*thermodynamic entropy*. Or have I overlooked a possibility?
There are instances where complexity increases are opposed just like there
are instances that the opposite happens. Since evolution takes place at far
equilibrium you should focus on such processes.
http://www.cab.cnea.gov.ar/cab/invBasica/teoria.html#g
"The formation and evolution of patterns is a typical manifestation of
selforganization processes, arising in far from equilibrium complex
systems. Besides its relevance in the study of such systems at a basic
level, the analysis of selforganization phenomena is also relevant in
several applications such as, physicochemical processes, information
transmission and biological systems. The project aims to the study of
development and behaviour of patterns in reaction-diffusion systems. "
http://www.fes.uwaterloo.ca/u/jjkay/pubs/thesis/2.html
http://www.icra.it/Publications/Books/Prigogine/Prigogine_motivation.htm
http://www.mindspring.com/~duckster/evolution/thermo.html
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