Re: conspiracy? - SEJ FAQ

From: FMAJ1019@aol.com
Date: Mon Oct 02 2000 - 03:36:24 EDT

  • Next message: Richard Wein: "Re: WHY DOES THE UNIVERSE WORK?"

    In a message dated 10/2/2000 12:13:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
    sejones@iinet.net.au writes:

    > I can't answer for all creationists but *my* position is that the
    > evolutionists
    > (theistic and atheistic) have a united front against creationism and often
    > act
    > in concert against creationists because they share a common naturalistic
    > *philosophy* which they sincerely believe to be the *truth*.
    >
    >

    There is a methodological naturalism which recognizes "... that scientific
    research proceeds by the search for chains of cause and effects and confines
    itself to the investigation of natural entities and forces. Science does not
    'assume away' a creator -- it is simply silent on the existence of a good. "

    [...]

    "Methodological naturalism places a boundary across what science can and
    cannot say, or waht explanations or descriptions can be accepted as part of
    the scientific enterprise. Science is self-limiting and that is its strength
    and power as a methodology. Science pursues truth within very narrow limits."

    Keith B Miller in the excellent book Darwinism Defeated ? By Lamoureux and
    Johnson. Miller is among several people who point out the errors in Johnson's
    arguments.

    See also

    http://humanism.net/~schafesd/naturalism.html

    "Philosophical naturalism itself exists in two forms: (1) ontological or
    metaphysical naturalism and (2) methodological
    naturalism. The former is philosophical naturalism as described above; the
    latter is the adoption or assumption of philosophical naturalism within
    scientific method with or without fully accepting or believing it. As will be
    exhaustively discussed below, science is not metaphysical and does not
    depend on the ultimate truth of any metaphysics for its success (although
    science does have metaphysical implications), but methodological
    naturalism must be adopted as a strategy or working hypothesis for science to
    succeed. We may therefore be agnostic about the ultimate truth of
    naturalism, but must nevertheless adopt it and investigate nature as if
    nature is all that there is. This is methodological naturalism."

    or

    http://members.aol.com/glauconii/creationism.html

    It seems that Stephen is making the same logical fallacy that Johnson has
    made. If one confuses ontological naturalism with methodological naturalism
    then one is likely to reach the erroneous conclusions found in Johnson's
    arguments and it seems also in Stephen's.

    Pennock
    http://www.onthenet.com.au/~stear/review_robert_pennock.htm
    http://pennock.tcnj.edu/research/publications.html

    "owever, Johnson fails to distinguish
         Ontological Naturalism from Methodological Naturalism. Science makes use
    of the latter and I show how it is not dogmatic but follows from sound
    requirements
         for empirical evidential testing. "

    Van Till
    http://www.origins.org/ftissues/ft9306/articles/johnson.html

    Links to Naturalism and Philosophy.
    http://human.st/bernt_rostrom/natlinks.htm

    Enterprising science needs naturalism, Wesley Elsberry
    http://www.dla.utexas.edu/depts/philosophy/faculty/koons/ntse/papers/Elsberry.

    html
    "I will connote "naturalism" as "proposing only natural mechanisms for
    physical phenomena" rather than "asserting that only natural mechanisms have
    existence". It is easy enough to define terms such that they become useless
    to anyone, which is how I view those who would make "naturalism",
    "scientism", and "scientific materialism" all synonymous. Science is
    incompetent to examine those conjectures which cannot be tested in the light
    of
    inter-subjective experience or criticism. The assertion that "only natural
    mechanisms have existence" is equivalent to the claim that "no supernatural
    causes exist". That is an example of proving a negative, and can only be
    regarded as a statement of faith, since it requires omniscience on the part of
    the claimant. "

    Is Science a religion Dawkins
    http://www.infidels.org/org/aha/publications/humanist/dawkins.html



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