RE: Anti-evolutionists use of quotes 2/2

From: Stephen E. Jones (sejones@iinet.net.au)
Date: Tue May 09 2000 - 17:53:31 EDT

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    Reflectorites

    On Tue, 9 May 2000 01:59:01 -0700, Troy Britain wrote:

    [...]

    >SJ>> I thought I would check which of Hoyle's books Troy has in his large
    >library so I could refer Troy to them. But guess what? On Troy's complete
    >science book listing, which Don referred me to at:
    >
    > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/troybritain/Scilib.html, Troy does
    >not have *any* of Hoyle's books listed! . . . Just to be sure I also checked
    >Troy's sub-page "On creationism, Anti-creationism & other Pseudosciences",
    >at:
    >
    > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/troybritain/anticreationism.htm
    >but there was no reference to any of Hoyle's books there either.
    >
    >Doesn't it strike others as extraordinary that the one anti-evolutionist
    >Troy chose to attack, he doesn't have listed even *one* of his books? <<

    [...]

    SJ>TB>>References:
    >
    > Hoyle, Fred and Wickramasinghe, Chandra (1981) _Evolution From Space_ chap.
    >8 _Insects from Space?_
    >
    > Hoyle, Fred (1983) _The Intelligent Universe: A New View of Creation and
    >Evolution_<<
    >
    > SJ>> None of which appeared in Troy's complete list of books on his web
    >page. <<

    TB>Stephen seems to think it is very significant that he couldn't find any of
    >Hoyle's books in my science library or in the anti-creationist subsection
    >therein.

    I realise now in my haste I mistook "anti-creationist" for "anti-evolutionist"
    and looked at the wrong web page. I apologise for the mistake and for
    any embarrassment that might have caused Troy.

    TB>He apparently thinks that this somehow reflects poorly on my
    >scholarship.
    >
    > Hmmm...perhaps it is significant.

    Troy's lack of scholarship *re Hoyle* was obvious from his post, and I
    detailed that.

    However, I point out that I did not use the word "scholarship" (Troy
    did) and I do not claim that Troy generally lacks scholarship.

    I do not think it necessarily a lack of scholarship to not own books on
    the topic being discussed, but I did think it "extraordinary" that Troy's
    friend Don would boast of Troy's extensive library and yet Troy's first
    post (it turned out to be his second) was all about Hoyle and yet
    Troy seemed to have no books by Hoyle.

    TB> [Psssst! Hey Stephen, you might want to look in the
    >creationism/anti-evolution section of my library, in which five of the
    >current one hundred and ninety references are under the name Hoyle:
    >
    > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/troybritain/Creat.html ]

    I note that Troy does not have Hoyle's latest books:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hoyle, Fred, The Nature of the Universe (1960), The New American
    Library, N.Y., IX + 124

    Hoyle, Fred, The Intelligent Universe, a New View of Creation and
    Evolution (1983), Holt, Rinehart and Winston N.Y. NY, 256

    Hoyle, Fred & Wickramasinghe, Chandra, Lifecloud, The Origin of
    Life in the Universe (1978), Harper & Row, Publishers NY, 189

    Hoyle, Fred & Wickramasinghe, Chandra, Evolution From Space, A
    Theory of Cosmic Creationism (1981), Simon & Schuster N.Y. NY, 176

    Hoyle, Fred & Wickramasinghe, Chandra, Archaeopteryx The
    Primordial Bird - A Case of Fossil Forgery (1986), Christopher Davies
    (Publishers) Ltd., 135
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    such as "Mathematics of Evolution" (1999) and "Our Place in the
    Cosmos" (1993).

    But I am glad to see that Troy has some of Hoyle's books after all. It
    appears that Troy's complete list of science books is not a complete
    list of all his books. Maybe Troy can make that clear for future visitors
    to his web page? If he did make that clear and I missed it, again I
    apologise.

    So maybe now Troy can actually quote from Hoyle's books rather
    than inaccurately paraphrasing them, and characterise Hoyle's
    arguments accurately? Also, maybe Troy can obtain Hoyle's *latest*
    books and acknowledge that his ideas have changed since the
    1980's? That would indeed show true "scholarship"!

    Steve

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