Re: Novel paradigms?

From: MikeBGene@aol.com
Date: Thu Apr 20 2000 - 02:25:24 EDT

  • Next message: Richard Wein: "Re: Novel paradigms?"

    Wesley:

    >I thought we were talking about the attempted rescuscitation of a
    >paradigm discarded in the mid-1800's. I think that the hurdle
    >is appropriately placed even higher for such "paradigms".

    Three things. The teleological view (which played an important
    role in the birth of modern science) made the mistake of
    expressing itself as vitalism. Yet vitalism is not the only
    way to express a teleological view. Secondly, all of the
    reasons that lead me to suspect that ID is behind the origin
    of life were not known in the mid-1800s. Third, while
    the teleological view has long been officially banished
    from science, it has not been shown to be false. Thus,
    all the ingredients exist for a viable rescusitation.

    >Plenty of research programs have had to demonstrate some level
    >of worth *before* achieving general acceptance.

    And shutting down the Polanyi Center is a good way to
    prevent this from happening.

    >The old Zenith slogan of "The quality goes in before the name goes on"
    >definitely is the inverse of the situation with the IDC
    >movement. They consistently clamor to have the name of
    >"science" (and the rights and privileges that go with it) to
    >be accorded their enterprise before producing anything of
    >scientific content. If the IDC program were as hot a ticket
    >as has been claimed by its proponents, it should be a cinch
    >for them to *produce* some *results* of a pilot scientific
    >research effort. Look at the funding available to the
    >Discovery Institute and other anti-evolutionary organizations.
    >If these folks were really interested in performing research,
    >they don't have to rely upon the usual sources of scientific
    >research funding.

    Who does the vast majority of hands-on science that is
    relevant to the concerns of this reflector? Answer:
    graduate students. They constitute the vast bulk of
    the labor behind all those publications we read. They are
    the ones working the 12-hour days running countless
    experiments. Thus, as long as we keep something
    like the Polanyi Center far away from academia, we
    can be sure to cut-off the main artery of labor that
    would generate such research. But there's more.
    Scientific research is a communal project, where
    departments typically have weekly seminars where
    these students present their data and receive feedback.
    Departments also facilitate the exchange of ideas
    (often crucial for coming up with new experiments)
    and the sharing of equipment. And then there are
    the various meetings and conventions. Since ID is
    excluded from these communal interactions, again
    we can ensure not much research will come out.

    >They have access to potfuls of money that
    >many scientists would find far more than adequate to
    >accommodate studies.

    Let's run the numbers. To set up a single modestly
    sized lab, we will need to pay the salaries of the
    PI and one post-doc. Let's make that $75000. We'll
    need plenty of state-of-the-art equipment, so let's
    add another $100,000. A small lab has at least
    two grad students. Let's say $40,000 for stipends
    and another $40,000 for tuition. And let's add
    $25, 000 for a lab assistant. Let's also throw in
    another $10,000 for supplies and reagents. So,
    to start up a lab, we'll need about $260,000. Let
    it run for a meager three years, and we
    have $520,000 (of course, I am ignoring the
    capital budget, social security, health care, etc.)
    Now, keep in mind, this is just one small lab.
    To set up and run 10 such small labs (compare
    to the thousands of labs that exclude ID, including
    many mega-labs), the potfuls from the Discovery
    Institute would have to fund 5.2 million every
    three years. I didn't realize they were spending
    millions on travel. Perhaps you can document this.

    >All they have to do is show that IDC
    >*works*.

    I've done that already. But since I failed to
    prove darwinian evolution is impossible and
    have not yet snapped a picture of the intelligent
    designer, it doesn't count. I understand how it
    works around here. ;)
      
    Mike



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