Re: tests and predictions

From: billwald@juno.com
Date: Mon Apr 17 2000 - 18:22:41 EDT

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    Maybe my history isn't any better than my biology but the stuff we
    commonly call science was origionally called philosophy. Thought
    experiments, not lab experiments were preferred. It was a big deal when
    Galen discovered blood flow because no one had bothered to look.

    Alchemy that preceeded science in the west was mostly witchcraft and
    philosophy. Only the Arabs were collecting hard data. Seems to Bacon
    defined science along the lines of Popper.

    >Popper takes an extreme view of what is meant by "science". By this
    view, no
    >theory about past events can be scientific, which rules out the
    historical
    >parts of the theory of evolution and geology, not to mention creationism
    and
    >ID. But few (if any) scientists take such an extreme view of science.

    I agree with Popper. Geology is a science with respect to soils science,
    continental drift measurements, and other current observations. It is
    predictive and useful in various engineering situations. Evolution is a
    science with respect to current observations. It is predictive to the
    extent that creatures have been observed to change physically because of
    environmental pressure instead of dying out. There are no currect changes
    being observed with respect to 7 day creationism and no predictions are
    being made. I can't think how lab experiments or field observations could
    differentiate between theistic evolution and naturalistic evolution.

    From
    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolphil/falsify.html
    interesting article:

    >Popper also accepted the legitimacy of metaphysical statements, but
    denied they were any >part of science. Popper's view (a variety of
    logical empiricism) was called 'falsificationism', and >in its mature
    versions held that something is scientific just so far as it

    >(i) is liable to be falsified by data;

    >(ii) is tested by observation and experiment, and

    >(iii) makes predictions.
     
    This is approx what I recall from Bacon. Other ways of collecting and
    analyzing data may provide truth but they don't need to be called
    science.

    We stopped a back woods cafe and the special was "Beef Stroganoff." It
    was OK but looked and tasted like hamburger and white sauce over rice.
    Maybe we were the only people who knew the difference. I suspect that
    beef stroganoff sells better than hamburger and rice, just as science
    sells and pays better than philosophy. Everyone wants to be a scientist.

    >Real Scientists Make Predictions. This was the True Scientific Method. A
    minor quibble should >be dealt with - Popper knew that the Falsification
    Principle could not be falsified. It was openly >metaphysical.

    Doesn't matter, it is axiomatic like a point only having location and a
    line having only length in plane geometry. Every system starts with
    unprovable assumptions. If someone doesn't like it they can start their
    own system but there is no need to steal the name.

    >It is significant that, although it is often claimed that Darwinism is
    unfalsifiable, many of the >things Darwin said have in fact been
    falsified.

    This is silly. Like saying cake baking is falsified because one recipe is
    bad,

    billwald@juno.com

     

      

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