Reflectorites
On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:42:37 -0600 (CST), Wesley R. Elsberry wrote:
[...]
WE>Notice that Stephen specifically ignores what was reported about
>Alex and his understanding of concepts when Stephen made his
>universal claim in [5]. ...
I did not ignore what was reported about the parrot. I specifically gave an
example of a parrot in Singapore which sang "Happy Birthday" but which
no one AFAIK is claiming it *understands* what it is singing.
This is my whole point about Alex the parrot. It cannot really be said to
"talk" in the same sense that humans can, unless it can be shown that it
*really* understands what it is saying, in the same way humans do, and not
just carrying out an elaborate set of learned responses.
[...]
WE>His accuracy averages approximately 80% on tests of these
>abilities.
I rest my case. If Alex really *understood* what he was saying, then he
would get 100% right on such simple (for a human) tasks . Remember Alex
is 24-years old and has been intensively trained by experts for many years.
On another List I am on, someone (whose name I am not at liberty to say)
wrote, about Kanzi, one of the more famous so-called `talking chimps':
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I am amused by the Ape Story, mostly because I have met Kanzi! My
Philosophy of Mind professor ... was a thorough naturalist, and thought it
his responsibility to let us all know about the mental capabilities of our
nearest relatives. So, we took a field trip to Rumbaugh's laboratory to see
Kanzi, the famed bonobo, and his sister Panbonisha.
I was distinctly unimpressed. My class had been told about Kanzi's ability
to understand complex commands, but he refused to perform or obey when
we were present. The Rumbaughs had a huge electronic board with
hundreds of symbols on it; whenever a symbol was pushed, the board
would electronically pronounce the word associated with the symbol. This
is how the bonobos are supposedly able to communicate as well as a three-
year-old human. Again, Kanzi refused to push any of the symbols; his sister
Panbonisha did push some of the symbols repeatedly, but it was difficult to
tell if she was really communicating or just having fun making noise. For
example, Panbonisha pushed a button repeatedly that said, "Chase." Of
course, the trainers were happy to offer extensive commentary and
interpretation: "See, she's trying to say that you [one of the humans] should
chase him [another human]. She loves the game of chase." All of the
alleged communication consisted of the ape pushing a button, and the
trainers giving elaborate exegesis thereupon.
My personal opinion is that the Rumbaughs are possibly guilty of a little
wishful thinking. And as for the assertion that Kanzi has the language
abilities of a 3-year-old, I could read the newspaper at 3. Kanzi's
nowhere close.
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Unfortunately, now that I am doing my Biology degree, I just don't have
the time anymore for long, point-by-point back-and-forth threads, so this
will be my last on this thread.
Steve
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Stephen E. (Steve) Jones ,--_|\ Email: sejones@iinet.net.au
3 Hawker Avenue / Oz \ Web: http://www.iinet.net.au/~sejones
Warwick 6024 -> *_,--\_/ Phone: +61 8 9448 7439
Perth, Western Australia v "Test everything." (1 Thess. 5:21)
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