Consensus?? Human birth

Magnus Murphy (mmurphy@cintek.com)
Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:03:12 -0700

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE4F9F.76CD1A20
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am new to this discussion group and began by reading some of the =
archived messages dating as far back as 1995. Of course nobody has =
enough time to read everything so I wonder if there is some way I can =
find out if any consensus has been reached on anything that has been =
discussed.

I got the impression that changing somebody's preconceived =
opinions/beliefs is an impossible task but it would be very informative =
to newcomers like myself if there could be some discussion of what =
consensus has been achieved in the last few years.

I am an OB/GYN practising in Canada (trained in South Africa) and is =
particularly interested in evolution as relating to the erect body =
position of humans and the effect of that on the skeleton (especially =
the pelvis) and therefore directly on the birth process. Does the erect =
position and the reasons for that in the evolutionary sense (ability to =
run faster for instance) lead to the necessity of a smaller, narrower =
pelvis?

In the reproductive sense there is a direct competition between the =
mother, who will be better off if the baby is small, and the fetus, who =
will be better off if born big (without damage of course). The =
mechanical problems of delivering a big baby without excessive damage to =
mother and baby and the interplay of this competition, is fascinating. =
There are some indications that pregnant woman can regulate the size of =
the baby, possibly by restricting the nutrients delivered by the =
uterine/placental perfusion. Thus smaller women will have smaller =
babies etc. This holds even when a donor embrio of large parents is =
implanted into a smaller woman. The same has been noted in animals.

Could this be the reason that human babies are so totally undeveloped in =
comparison to some of the other primate species for instance the large =
apes? Longer gestation to provide further development would of =
necessity lead to larger size and thus an impossible mechanical birth =
problem.

Could anyone tell me if other primates have developed the rotational =
birth process without which almost no human birth is possible? Could =
this have been a development in response to the increasing problems from =
increased brainsize and decreasing pelvic size?

Our increasing use of cesarean section for obstructive labour has =
removed nature's way of preventing genes coding for insufficient =
pelvices to be transmitted. The flip side could be that it has also =
removed the previous hindrance to a possible increase in brainsize in =
the human fetus.

I wonder if anyone has information on the pelvic size of Neanderthals, =
who apparently sometimes had bigger or at least equal brain sizes than =
modern humans?

It is my belief that in due time, cesarean birth will become the rule =
rather than the exception. As it is, most human births come at high =
cost to the mother as a result of mechanical problems as mentioned =
above. The prevalence of genital prolapse and incontinence problems in =
parous women is unbelievably high and I truly believe this is one of the =
silent epidemics of our time.

Any coments?

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE4F9F.76CD1A20
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">

I am new to this discussion group =and began by=20reading some of the archived messages dating as far back as 1995.  =Of=20course nobody has enough time to read everything so I wonder if there is =some=20way I can find out if any consensus has been reached on anything that =has been=20discussed.
 
I got the impression that changing =somebody's=20preconceived opinions/beliefs is an impossible task but it would be very =informative to newcomers like myself if there could be some discussion =of what=20consensus has been achieved in the last few years.
 
I am an OB/GYN practising in Canada =(trained in=20South Africa) and is particularly interested in evolution as relating to =the=20erect body position of humans and the effect of that on the skeleton =(especially=20the pelvis) and therefore directly on the birth process.  Does the =erect=20position and the reasons for that in the evolutionary sense (ability to =run=20faster for instance) lead to the necessity of a smaller, narrower=20pelvis?
 
In the reproductive sense there is a =direct=20competition between the mother, who will be better off if the baby is =small, and=20the fetus, who will be better off if born big (without damage of =course). =20The mechanical problems of delivering a big baby without excessive =damage to=20mother and baby and the interplay of this competition, is =fascinating. =20There are some indications that pregnant woman can regulate the size of =the=20baby, possibly by restricting the nutrients delivered by the =uterine/placental=20perfusion.  Thus smaller women will have smaller babies etc.  =This=20holds even when a donor embrio of large parents is implanted into a =smaller=20woman.  The same has been noted in animals.
 
Could this be the reason that human babies are so =totally=20undeveloped in comparison to some of the other primate species for =instance the=20large apes?  Longer gestation to provide further development would =of=20necessity lead to larger size and thus an impossible mechanical birth=20problem.
 
Could anyone tell me if other primates have =developed the=20rotational birth process without which almost no human birth is =possible? =20Could this have been a development in response to the increasing =problems from=20increased brainsize and decreasing pelvic size?
 
Our increasing use of cesarean section for =obstructive labour=20has removed nature's way of preventing genes coding for insufficient =pelvices to=20be transmitted.  The flip side could be that it has also removed =the=20previous hindrance to a possible increase in brainsize in the human=20fetus.
 
I wonder if anyone has information on the pelvic =size of=20Neanderthals, who apparently sometimes had bigger or at least equal =brain sizes=20than modern humans?
 
It is my belief that in due time, =cesarean birth=20will become the rule rather than the exception.  As it is, most =human=20births come at high cost to the mother as a result of mechanical =problems as=20mentioned above.  The prevalence of genital prolapse and =incontinence=20problems in parous women is unbelievably high and I truly believe this =is one of=20the silent epidemics of our time.
 
Any coments?
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0022_01BE4F9F.76CD1A20--