Re: uhh? why not evolution?

Pim van Meurs (entheta@eskimo.com)
Thu, 12 Jun 1997 18:12:37 -0400

JQ: ----You are merely hiding behind a wall of defenitions. When I point
out

Defenitions are quite important.

JQ: that humans have not evolved in 1000's of years despite the billions of
humans that have existed this means nothing to you. Evolution to you is

Nope, because 1) you have not shown this 2) 1000 years is but an
infinitesimal part of the total timeframe in which evolution has taken
place.

JQ: something that happens in humans even though it has never been shown to
happen. However, your defenition of evolution includes simple one DNA base

Wrong again. Evidence of evolution exists.

JQ: pair mistakes. I think if you would read a book on biochemistry that
talks

Yep.

JQ: about DNA and how it is self correcting you will find that even single
mutations are very rare.

Yep. Nobody claimed that mutations are happening at a high rate.

JQ: Since this is a scientific forum let me lead you through a simple
senario. Lets say single mutations over many generations inprove upon the
sequence of a protein making it more usefull. I'll let you pick any
primary structure you wish. Okay now, the first generation has passed and
the code for DNA has changed so that it codes for another amino acid. What
will the requirements be for this new code? Well first of all the
mutations must have to occur in the animals reproductive organs. Second of

I thought you stated that the mutation had already happened in the first
generation.

JQ: all the body must recognize this new protein. The third requirement is

I thought you had already established that there was a useful protein.

JQ: that this protein must be mutated over hundreds of generations in the
same
location. The fourth requirement is that the proteins code must become

Huh ? If there is a mutation then this mutation can be passed on among
one's off spring. How does this protein have to be mutated over hundreds
of generations ?

JQ: more usefull for the body after each generation.

Nope.

JQ: My challenge is this: is there anyone here or who knows of anyone
that can start with just a 100 AA protein(make-believe) and make any amount
of modifications to this protein, even up to three modifications at a
time(which would be way out of hand) and create a protein that is usefull
to the body after each mutation? Okay now close your eyes and pick where

It gets even better than this. There are examples of just a single
mutation which provides the host with an advantage.

JQ: the mutations will go at each generation.
Reality check: Even if there was some usefull code made, the next
generation would have to deal with the random mutations that are coming.

Yep, like the primary generation had to deal with it. But if there is a
mutation and this mutation has an advantage which leads to greater
survival of the organism then the off spring with this mutation will have
a greater potential to survive. As such the mutation can become frozen in
the population.
That the offspring has to deal with future mutations is of no relevance to
the fact that the mutation did occur and had a chance to become frozen.