> > On Wed, 29 Nov 1995, Russ Maatman wrote:
> >
> > > Russ Maatman wrote:
> > >
> > > >> the nonnegotiable position I take re evolution is that
> > > human beings were created de novo.<<
> > >
> >
> > Russ, I have always been puzzled by your category of "nonnegotiability."
> > Can you briefly outline what epistemological/hermeneutic justification
> > you have in making this distinction? For example, why to you consider
> > the de novo creation of Adam and Eve nonnegotiable (Genesis 2), but
> > you do not employ this category for the de novo creation as
> > described in Gen 1? (I am assuming that you still maintain either an
> > overlapping day-age or framework exegesis of the first chapter of God's
> > Word. The Impact of Evolutionary Theory, p. 185)
> >
Russ:
> First, you will certainly admit that all Christians consider certain
> matters nonnegotiable. God is sovereign. God is one. God is the Creator.
> Christ, the second person of the Trinity, became man. Christ died and
> rose again so that he could be the redeemer of his people and, since
> Creation had been polluted with sin, of Creation.
Of course, but these are major issues throughout church history that
were debated and even became part of the major church creeds. The de
novo creation of Adam and Eve has never been debated and studied like the
issues you state above. De novo creation of A&E never has been a primary
tenet in any church creed (other than maybe some 20th century
fundamentalist churches).
> You have seen my book and so you have read why I insist that a human
> being is not a body-plus-soul, but rather a body/soul, and that therefore
> the creation of Adam and Eve was not the addition of a soul to a body. By
> the way, I don't have any difficulty with holding that Genesis 1 describes
> the creation of everything, including the human race, and that Genesis 2
> gets down to particulars, especially with respect to human beings.
>
> As I see it, the body/soul matter is (forgive the use of this word!)
> nonnegotiable. From this (again, see my book) it follows that Adam and
> Eve were created de novo.
Forgive me Russ, but this is not a hermeneutical argument. This is a
philosophic argument, of which its ontological assumptions
(Platonic mostly) certainly can be questionned.
You have not answered my original question:
WHY IS IT THAT THE DE NOVO CREATION OF ADAM AND EVE IN GENESIS 2
IS NONNEGOTIABLE, BUT DE NOVO CREATION SEEN IN GEN 1 IS NEGOTIABLE?
IMHO you are being inconsistent, and I cannot imagine a
hermeneutical move that allows you to maintain nonnegotiability
for Gen 2, but negotiability for Gen 1. Help me out on this.
> Most of what I am saying is the historic, orthodox position of the
> Christian church. Those who want to accept another idea ought, therefore,
> to accept the burden of proof. (Example: those of us who think that the
> earth is very old have had to present cogent biblical reasons why this
> view is tenable.)
OK! So Russ what you are saying here is if the scientific data points to
a view different from the obvious/literal exegesis of a passage, yes
maybe even one that is NONNEGOTIABLE, then the nonnegotiability clause
may be dropped. But then it in reality never was nonnegotiable--which
is all I am attempting to convey to you.
Regarding man and apes, I think the proof is quite clear: 98% genetic
similarity. Gen 2, like Gen 1, like all the scientific statements in the
scriptures, are all negotiable in the light of the scientific data,
so-correctly interpreted.
> Well, Denis, we have been through some of this before! Good to talk to you.
Yes, and I couldn't figure it out the first time. Forgive your little
north thorn. :-) I am so sorry we didn't spend time together at ASA
last summer .... maybe in 1996 in Toronto, my old stomping ground, eh?
As always friend,
Denis
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Denis O. Lamoureux DDS PhD PhD (cand)
Department of Oral Biology Residence:
Faculty of Dentistry # 1908
University of Alberta 8515-112 Street
Edmonton, Alberta Edmonton, Alberta
T6G 2N8 T6G 1K7
CANADA CANADA
Lab: (403) 492-1354
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E-mail: dlamoure@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
"In all debates, let truth be thy aim, and endeavor to gain
rather than expose thy opponent."
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