Re: flood models #1 (was Fossil Man Again)

Stephen Jones (sjones@iinet.net.au)
Sun, 26 Nov 95 23:12:40 EST

Group

On Tue, 14 Nov 1995 23:47:20 -0500 Glenn wrote:

>Stephen wrote of mycalculation of the time to fill the Mediterranean:

SJ>Even "8 months" is enough to prove Glenn's theory wrong! First,
the
>Bible says the fountains flowed for only took "a hundred and fifty
>days" (Gn 7:24) and secondly, a flood that took "8 months" to fill up
>would be too slow. The deepest part of the the Mediterranean is 4,900
>metres (Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1984, 11:854). To fill that in "8
>months" would be an average rate of 0.85 metres per hour. That seems
>far too slow to catch all humans and animals unawares.<<

GM>You are reaching, really reaching here. If I said the sky was blue

>you would doubt me.

GIenn uses the debating tactic of trivialising his opponent's
arguments! :-) I thought the idea of this Reflector was to critique
each other's arguments? I
thought that questioning the "average rate of 0.85 metres per hour"
rate of
flow of Glenn's filling of the Mediterranean, as too slow, was a
valid point?

GM>If the water were rising at 2.7 meters per hour, how far do you
>think you could run in the next hour? Go down to the sea shore, wade out to
>a depth of 2.7 feet and start running. Especially if you were on a the very
>flat abyssal portion. You might just have to run a hundred miles to gain
>five feet of elevation. You are most likely to run for the local topographic
>high, which you can see and hope to wait it out. But if the water inexoribly
>keeps rising, covering your position, then you have to swim. It would be
>quite sufficient to drown a lot of people especially if they had the
>misconception that local hills would save them.

Glenn has a valid point - for those people living on the flat abyssal
plain,
who tried to outrun the advancing Flood. But what about those who
lived
near the edge of it? What about those who floated on debris? If the
water rose this slow then I am sure there would be many human and
animal survivors, yet the Genesis account says there were none (Gn
7:22). Indeed, it is doubtful if
Glenn's slow Flood would trap even one bird, yet Noah had to bring
birds on
to the Ark (Gn 7:14).

GM>Riverine floods, like you seem to prefer, rise at an even slower
rate than
>the .85 m/h you criticize me for. For instance,in the 1927 Mississippi
>river flood, the river rose 10 meters in 6 months. This is 0.0023
>meters/hour. (Champ Clark, _Flood_, Time-Life Books, 1982, p. 87 Yet this
>flood killed 250-500 people (p. 77)

I don't know where Glenn gets this idea that I prefer "Riverine
floods". I
have previously stated that I have never claim that Noah's Flood was
"riverine".

>Stephen wrote:
SJ>If Glenn wants his theory to be Biblical then "springs" are
*central*,
>not an add-on.<<

GM>Who requires this? What springs break forth in you Mesopotamian
flood? If
>springs should be central to my view, then I presume that they are to your
>view also. What springs broke forth? Where are they? What is the evidence of
>their breaking forth? Don't tell me that you don't know because you aren't a
>geologist. You should live up to the standard you require of others.

I have no idea what Glenn is arguing here. His book did not AFAIK
mention
"springs", so Glenn has added them because I "wanted" them. My point
was that he should have had "springs" in his core theory, not just
added
on to please me.

>Stephen strangely wrote:
>Stephen wrote:
>SJ>Indeed, I find it interesting that Glenn never quotes from his book.
>
>GM>Lets start a rumor here. Maybe there is no book. :-)
>
SJ>Why does Glenn here evade the issue? Glenn has claimed he has
>published a book arguing that Noah was a Homo habilis and the Flood
>ocurred 5.5 MYA in the Mediterranean. The book has been reviewed by
>Bill Hamilton on the Reflector. I find it most strange that Glenn
>doesn't quote from his book where it touches on these issues.<<
>
>end quote
>
GM>Why should I quote myself. That would sound very, very silly. If I
say that
>GLENN SAID in his book, "Blah,Blah Blah..." it simply would sound ludicrous,
>like my mother who always wrote of herself in the 3rd person; as if she
>really wasn't in the room writing the letter she sent you. No thanks! Why
>can't I simply say what I want? Occasionally, I can say it better than I did
>in the book, (albeit with more typos and grammatical errors cause I don't
>have my friends critique what I put here for grammar etc.)
>
>Sorry Stephen, I find authors who quote themselves boring. I may be radical,
>controversial, maddening, unorthodox, or wrong but I never want to be
>boring!!!!!

I find this bluster of Glenn's unconvincing. :-) I would have thought
in
discussing Glenn's theory of a Homo habilis Noah's Flood ocurring 5.5
MYA in the Mediterranean, set forth in his book, that Glenn would at
least occasionally quote from that book, or at least mention what it
says.

Perhaps Glenn will also explain (from his book preferably) how a
Mediterranean Flood could float the Ark across to "the mountains of
Ararat"
(Gn 8:4). According to my atlas, Mt Ararat (Buyuk Agri Dagi) is about
500
miles from the nearest part of the Mediterranean Sea.

God bless.

Stephen

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