Re: Testing Darwinism, part 2

Steve Clark (ssclark@facstaff.wisc.edu)
Sat, 18 Nov 1995 20:11:15 -0600

>Steve Clark wrote:
>
>>Walter, you have rejected all attempts Loren brought forward to show how a
>>model of natural selection can lead to certain predictions about nature. It
>>is incumbent upon you to explain what sort of testability you would accept.
>
>I wish to avoid yet another evolutionary dodge. I already how it goes, like
>this. Switch the subject away from the testability of evolution. Get
>Walter talking about HIS view of testability. Diddle around for while.
>Parry and thrust for a while. Then eventually announce that you don't
>subscribe to "Walter's view of testability". The issue of the testability
>of evolution -- as always -- gets left by the wayside. The ol' switcher-oo.
If you a priori reject everything Loren and others claim can be used to test
evolution, then there is no point in discussing with you whether evolution
is testable or not. The question that was posed is whether evolution meets
the testability requirement in order to be considered science. This point
is separate from whether or not evolution has been unable to live up to any
test of the theory.

>All roads lead back there. So no more dodges ... please.

Well, I don't intend to dodge anything, however, I am not responsible for
how you interpret what I say here.

>>At this juncture, I am not interested in what leading evolutionists and
>>scientific organization would say. Just be straight with us here.
>
>I sense that Steve is sincerely interested in my views here, (and in giving
>them a good kicking around!) Which is all fair, and part of the fun! I'll
>venture to offer my views. Just don't forget what I said above, okay.
>
>In my view there are many independent tests of evolution, and evolution has
>failed them. Let me list some. There is the systematic absences of:
> Demonstrations of the naturalistic origin of life
> Extraterrestrial life
> Demonstrations of evolution that span the gaps
> in life's pattern
> Demonstrations of "convergent evolution" of the
> magnitude we see in nature
> Clear-cut ancestors and lineages -- a REAL phylogeny
> Potent evolutionary mechanisms, such as Lamarkian
> inheritance, widespread transposition and atavism
>
>Let me add the following problems:
> The theoretical and experimental failures to explain the
> origin and maintenance of sexual reproduction
> (i.e. recombination), diploidy, and genetic systems in
> general
> The failure of evolutionary genetics to provide a coherent
> model that can solve substantial existing problems,
> such as: Haldane's Dilemma, the highly inert genome,
> and error catastrophe
> The tendency for abrupt appearances of fully formed
> fossil groups
> The structure of the fossil record tends to 'self-authenticate'
> itself, thereby preventing evolutionists (such as the
> punctuationists) from invoking rampant
> "incompleteness" of the fossil record.
>
>These are not piecemeal difficulties. They represent a broad failure of
>evolutionary theory. But that is my view.
>
>Evolutionists look at this and say "See, this is Science, we never have all
>the answers. We don't start with perfection" and they make lots of excuses.
>
>Evolutionists regard their theory as "fact", not falsified. Their view, not
>mine, sets the standard for their theory. Is evolution falsified, or
>unfalsifiable? Either way, it has no grip on reality. Either way it is not
>science. If pressed for a categorization, I say evolution is unfalsifiable,
>as that is its essential character as practiced by its proponents.

Thank you for explaining your views. However, I am not sure how you
reconcile saying that evolution is unfalsifiable with the following
statement you made above,

>In my view there are many independent tests of evolution, and evolution has
>failed them.

This sounds like you have judged evolution to be false, but if you also
believe that it isn't falsifiable.......

Steve
__________________________________________________________________________
Steven S. Clark, Ph.D. Phone: (608) 263-9137
Associate Professor FAX: (608) 263-4226
Dept. of Human Oncology and email: ssclark@facstaff.wisc.edu
UW Comprehensive Cancer Ctr
University of Wisconsin
Madison, WI 53792

"What, then is time? I know well enough what it is, provided that nobody
asks me" Augustine'Confessions'
__________________________________________________________________________