From: "Michael Roberts" <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
> I think you suffer from a form of Perfectionism and overlook the view that
we
> are simul peccator et justus and that applies whether we are president,
> prime minister or husband or wife.
Okay, but I am dubious about how you might have reached that conclusion. I
suspect you don't believe that people in power are as willfully evil as I am
saying. That is the great credibility barrier to be overcome by present-day
Christians in the developed world in understanding how the world is run.
Look what some people in circles of power have said:
"The picture is terrifying because such power, whatever the goals at which
it is being directed, is too much to be entrusted to any group... No country
that values its safety should allow what [the Rhodes-Milner] group
accomplished - that is, that a small number of men would be able to wield
such a power in administration and politics, should be given almost complete
control over the publication of documents relating to their actions, should
be able to exercise such influence over the avenues of information that
create public opinion, and should be able to monopolize so completely the
writing and the teaching of the history of their own period." Carroll
Quigley, in his posthumously published exposé, The Anglo-American
Establishment
"The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so
monstrous he cannot believe it exists." J. Edgar Hoover, former head of the
FBI
"I am concerned for the security of our nation, not so much because of any
threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from
within." General Douglas MacArthur
"Some of the biggest men in the U.S. in the fields of commerce and
manufacturing know that there is a power so organized, so subtle, so
complete, so pervasive that they had better not speak above their breath
when they speak in condemnation of it." Woodrow Wilson
"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial
element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the
days of Andrew Jackson." Franklin D. Roosevelt, Nov. 21, 1933, in a letter
to Colonel Edward Mandell House, Wilson's handler for the New World Order
"Whatever the price of the Chinese Revolution, it has obviously succeeded
not only in producing a more efficient and dedicated administration, but
also in fostering high morale and community of purpose. ... The social
experiment in China under Chairman Mao's leadership is one of the most
important and successful in human history." David Rockefeller, 1973
"The only prize much cared for by the powerful is power." Oliver Wendell
Holmes, Jr., 1913
"Today Americans would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to
restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if
they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or
promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples
of the world will pledge with world leaders to deliver them from this evil.
The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this
scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee
of their well-being granted to them by their world government." Henry
Kissinger addressing the May 21, 1992 Bilderberger meeting in Evian, France.
"Long live the Military Industrial Complex!" Pronouncement from notorious
Iran-Contra figure Major General Richard V. Secord after draining a quart of
Old Bushmills whiskey charged to the account of Southern Air Transport at
the Oak Room Bar at the Miami Intercontinental Hotel in the summer of 1985 -
Al Martin, ONI [Southern Air Transport: a CIA "cut-out"]
"The [Council on Foreign Relations] grew out of the Inquiry, a secretive
group of well-educated bankers and lawyers who accompanied Woodrow Wilson to
the Paris Peace Conference of 1919. The council saw [as] its mandate the
calling of signals from the sidelines.... [T]he [elites] govern, while the
lowly men of elective office...dirty their hands with politics... The
international institutions conceived in 1945 - the UN, the World Bank, and
the International Monetary Fund - were anticipated in studies done at the
council." New York Magazine, Oct. 7, 1996.
"Ah...America... Home of the naive. Land of the provincial...Thank God!"
Pronouncement from a well-lubricated Senator Bob Dole at the 1985 Reagan
Re-inauguration Dinner held at the Watergate Plaza - Al Martin, ONI
Most American Christians simply cannot bring themselves to imagine that the
people in power live in a motivational space nowhere near their own.
> Jimmy Carter was a Christian who made mistakes
Again, my question is a variation on a theme. Do you know Jimmy Carter
personally? How deeply into his background have you delved? What do you make
of his association with Zbigniew Brzezinsky? (Even Eerdmans is duped by
him.) And his attendance at the Bohemian Grove? (See www.infowars.com for
this.) This isn't just a matter of sins in spite of faith. It's active,
willful participation with evil people in power, in activities that are
intentionally evil in purpose.
"... This regionalization is in keeping with the Tri-Lateral Plan which
calls for a gradual convergence of East and West, ultimately leading toward
the goal of 'one world government.'... National sovereignty is no longer a
viable concept ..." Zbigniew Brzezinski, National Security Advisor to
President Jimmy Carter, who was instrumental in bringing him to power.
"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen, but by him who resists it." John Hay
1872
> One of our greatest Prime ministers Gladstone was a Christian and he got
> things wrong.
The attitude underlying your argument is one of excusing evils by those in
power. Why? Why not judge them by the criteria of scripture, by God's law,
instead?
I don't at all deny that in world history there have been some righteous
rulers. I'm referring (to be specific) to post-WW II US Presidents, though
one might expand that to most, if not all, 20th century presidents.
Gladstone's predecessor said:
"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by
those who are not behind the scenes." Benjamin Disraeli, first Prime
Minister of Britain, in a novel he published in 1844 called Coningsby, the
New Generation
What do you think of Disraeli?
> And in my own way I get lots of things wrong
> Perhaps we should remember Luthers words "sin boldly" knowing that we try
to
> do right but can be confident in Christ's forgiveness when we dont.
That can be applied for Christians who understand Luthers intention well,
but does not apply to the Devil's middle management. They sin
matter-of-factly.
It is a complete misreading of their actual intentions.
"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was
planned that way." Franklin D. Roosevelt
> In the 70s Bill Burnett Archbishop of Cape Town said that no white
Christian
> in South Africa could have a good conscience and was pilloried for it. I
> knew what he meant having lived in South Africa under Apartheid - my
actions
> and words over racial matters often were not thoroughly Christian but in
my
> mining company I was regarded as a blatant kaffir-boetie, which was an
> offensive term best expressed as nigger-lover.
For the same general reason, I don't expect my expression, and similar
discoveries by a minority of other Christians, of what we have found from
some concerted study of the world-system to be popular among most American
Christians. I would hope that scientific people would be more aware, but
that happens to not be the case either. We don't have time to be good at
both science/engineering and the world-system in most cases. Even in ASA,
where wider interests are expected, I do not find it. Ex-ASAer Mark Ludwig
(www.ameaglepubs.com ) comes closest.
> We are all fallen
While this is true in itself, it is a faulty emphasis in dealing with the
world-system and will mislead unless much discernment is also applied along
with it. Excusing evil in high places dulls one's discernment of the true
nature of the world-system.
"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both
instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged,
and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air,
however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness." Supreme
Court Justice William O. Douglas
Dennis Feucht
Received on Thu Oct 7 22:09:49 2004
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Thu Oct 07 2004 - 22:09:50 EDT