Re: TOE or TSD: that is the question! (was Genesis 1:1 - a standing miracle)

Jan,

I'm happy that we can at least agree the most important thing of all, namely that Jesus died for your sins and mine. However, regarding the other matters that have arisen just lately, if Genesis 1:1 is revealed as the most remarkable combination of words ever written [and it is, by virtue of its being (a) a fundamental assertion, (b) uniquely positioned in a large book, and (c) packed with numerical riches of one kind and another - some relating closely to an abundant modern-day artefact] then does it not follow that we should expect it to be regarded with particular interest by scientifically-minded, and truth-seeking, Christians and Jews? But the message that is coming through strongly is that you evolutionists would prefer to ignore any new source of scriptural information that in your view threatens to 'shake the boat'.

Some time ago I initiated a thread on this list entitled 'Evolution's Imperative'. Sadly, that appears to sum things up; it's what convinces me that TOE = TSD.

Vernon
www.otherbiblecode.com

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jan de Koning
  To: asa@calvin.edu
  Sent: Friday, July 30, 2004 4:16 AM
  Subject: Re: TOE or TSD: that is the question! (was Genesis 1:1 - a standing miracle)

  Vernon, I have tried to stay out of the conversation about Gen. 1 you gave, because I totally disagree with the way you read the Bible, the book by which I live, since you make it a book full of secret language use. I do not want to discuss the way you distort its contents. I strongly believe, that God did not include Gen. or other books in the Bible for all kinds of funny gams with numbers. The numbers He mentioned are clearly indicating what He meant by it.
  God does not want to deceive us in nature either. You cannot assume that God made nature in such a way that he is deceiving all scientists. Far from it. God always uses a language people can understand. In the time of Noah, Abraham, David etc, as well. Their background was totally different from ours. Also, their use of language was not modern English with a background of modern life. People in the agricultural Old Testament had a totally different use of language than we in modern times have. That makes translating difficult, but also, it means that we should not try to use texts in the way you wanted. For my feeling you play games with the sacred Word.
  Believe in Jesus Christ as your Saviour, and admit that some things in the Bible, as well as in God's creation are too difficult to understand.

  I do not intend to reply to you, if you answer this e-mail, since from what I read thus far from your replies to others, we would not get any closer to understanding each other. I tried, but could not get in your frame of mind. However, I will accept that you believe that Jesus died for your sins and mine.

  Jan de Koning

  At 11:32 PM 29/07/2004 +0100, Vernon Jenkins wrote:

    Glenn,

    Thanks for these geological 'proofs' of an old earth and evolution. But, as a Christian, I suggest your approach to these matters has been lax and far too simplistic. Let me explain: you should have learned from the Book of Job (1:6-12; 2:1-7), from the events leading up to the death of Ahab, King of Israel (1Kings 22), and from Paul's words of warning (Eph. 6: 10-18) that we live our earthly lives against a backdrop of considerable supernatural activity. In the wisdom of God, the deceiver - and enemy of our souls - Satan, is sometimes allowed to exercise considerable power on earth (such as providing those _decoys_ you have listed). Now it should be clear to all believers of the Gospel that evolution sits _extremely awkwardly_ with the Scriptures, and there can be little doubt that all attempts to harmonise the two have resulted in serious distortions of the Word of God - something that the Apostle Peter expressly warns against (2Pet.3:15-16). Undoubtedly, this situation - and the confusion it has engendered - represent a coup for Satan! It also explains why this 'Theory' is different from _all others_ in that, when challenged, its adherents tend to become testy and hostile, and those unable to accept it are subjected to duress of one kind or another.

    Glenn, I put it to you that 'Theory of Evolution' is better described as the 'Theory of Satanic Deception'.

    Vernon

    www.otherbiblecode.com

      
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Glenn Morton
      To: 'Vernon Jenkins' ; 'Don Winterstein' ; 'Walter Hicks'
      Cc: 'asa'
      Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 11:47 AM
      Subject: RE: Genesis 1:1 - a standing miracle

       
       DW : Overwhelming scientific evidence compels us to conclude the world is much older than 10,000 years.
       
      VJ: If the evidence is indeed as rock-solid as you suggest then why do many reputable scientists continue to think otherwise?
       
      Vernon, I guess it is time to point you to some web pages which show pictures of Geology. If the earth is less than 10 kyr, then the geologic column must be deposited quite rapidly or created in place. That means you have either a God who makes up animals who never lived and thus is deceptive, or you have to beleive in a global flood. There are lots of problems with that. We can't post pictures to this list so I will point you to my web page on geology which has links to lots of pictures in geology which show exactly why the geology was not deposited in one year. The site is http://home.entouch.net/dmd/geology.htm
       
      The reasons for this included
       
      burrows in all levels of the geologic column,
       
      dried out mudcracks and desert deposits on all levels of the geologic column,
       
      foot prints and trails on all levels of the geologic column,
       
      erosion of very hard rocks (like 35 km of hard igneous rock eroded in Scotland).
       
      buried river channels
       
      buried canyons
       
      plants growing in many levels of the geologic column
       
      too many animals for a single biosphere to have been killed in a flood
       
      evidence of normal activities, like animals going to the bathroom over a long period of time--otherwise you have to assume they all took a dump at once.
       
      Take a look and explain the geology, Vernon. this is the stuff which the YEC leadership never wants the laity to see. And there are pictures for it all. The reason why people still believe in a young earth is because they won't look at geology.
Received on Sat Jul 31 16:39:41 2004