Re: Genesis 1:1 - a standing miracle

Douglas,

You will find my comments appended.

----- Original Message -----
From: <douglas.hayworth@perbio.com>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Cc: <asa@calvin.edu>; <asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu>; "gordon brown"
<gbrown@euclid.colorado.edu>; "George Murphy" <gmurphy@raex.com>; "Gary
Collins" <gwcollins@algol.co.uk>; "Michael Roberts"
<michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Genesis 1:1 - a standing miracle

>
> Gordon Brown wrote:
>
> > Vernon,
> >
> > What bothers me about your comments on this thread is the non sequiturs.
> I
> > think that all the regular contributors to this forum accept the truth
of
> > Genesis 1:1. The numerical patterns in it are totally unnecessary to
> reach
> > that conclusion. To say that it implies YEC seems like quite a stretch.
> If
> > that verse gives any indication at all about the length of time
involved,
> > it is not supportive of YEC. The author chose to use the word *reshit*,
> > which means a first part of something, not a first point. See what this
> > word means in Gen. 10:10, Job 42:12, and Jeremiah 28:1.
> >
> > What would really be impressive would be if you could come up with a way
> > based on numerical patterns to test any text, not just Gen. 1:1, to tell
> > for sure whether or not it is Scripture. That would be a great boon to
> > textual criticism.
> >
> > Gordon Brown
> > Department of Mathematics
> > University of Colorado
> > Boulder, CO 80309-0395
>
>
> To which Vernon Responded:
>
>
> Gordon,
>
> I have little doubt that you are correct in claiming that all the regular
> contributors to this forum accept the truth of Genesis 1:1, and should
> require no further proof of its veracity. However, it now turns out that
> this verse is _bigger_ than we can ever have imagined. Its component of
> unique numbers, coordinated geometries and apposite symbolisms serve to
> augment its already substantial prominence as first and most important
> verse
> of the Judaeo-Christian Scriptures. So it is appropriate that we ask
> (correctly deducing that there must be some serious purpose behind this!),
> What are we expected to learn from this gratuitous 'sign'? As a minimum, I
> suggest a completely new and fuller understanding of the character of our
> Creator - in particular, His exceptional abilities, His interest in us,
and
> His dependability and truthfulness. Thus, for example, is it any longer
> reasonable for us to suppose that His making of Eve was other than from a
> rib of Adam (Gen.2:21-24). But how can this statement live alongside a
> belief in theistic evolution?
>
> To which I (Doug) respond:
>
> Vernon,
>
> Assuming that one accepts the supernaturalness (the miracle) of Gen 1:1
> (i.e., that the specific wording of this verse was specially orchestrated
> by God, working by his Spirit through the original human scribe), that has
> no relevance to the semantic literalness of its meaning, and therefore it
> has no bearing on the semantic literalness of any other verses in
> scripture. Suppose that a similar conjunction of geometries existed for
> parts of Psalm 19, where figurative language is used to describe the
> orderliness of God's creation and moral law. Would that mean that the sun
> is literally a champion running its course across the sky? Indeed not! One
> must ask what God's purpose is in the miracle you have revealed. It is not
> to prove Young Earth Creationism and disprove evolution; rather, it is AT
> MOST to act as a sign to reassure the believer (and possibly to bear fruit
> of faith in the seeker) that the scriptures are a reliable source of
> knowledge about God - that the scriptures are His revelation.
>
> You seem to be getting in the way of God's purpose in this alleged
miracle,
> in that you are inscripting (as in kidnapping) it into service for the YE
> cause. That is presumptuous on your part. Please let the evidence of the
> miracle stand on its own. Indeed, your tying of the alleged miracle to
your
> YEC only serves to lessen the impact of what God might wish to communicate
> by the revealing of it, since many will blow it off with the rest of your
> YEC.
>
> You want to use this miracle as evidence for YEC. You must understand that
> the group of us who accept evolution as a correct description of the
> formational history of the universe do so because of positive evidence in
> its favor. Would you have us deny "...the character of our Creator - in
> particular, His exceptional abilities, His interest in us, and
> His dependability and truthfulness" by brushing aside all the physical
> evidence he has given us in his Creation?
>
> No Christian participant on this discussion list disagrees with the
> theological statement of Gen 1:1 because that verse says nothing about
> evolution or YEC or any other theory about how creation was manifest.
>
> Sincerely,
> Douglas
>

Douglas,
Concerning your first paragraph: It is the _character_ of the Person
revealed by the miracle that I am chiefly concerned with. Isn't it
reasonable to believe that He who planned and delivered these wonders is
also One who means business and speaks clearly, without equivocation? You
have stated that "the scriptures are a reliable source of knowledge about
God - (they) are His revelation." But, as I understand 'revelation' in this
context it is a body of information that would be forever beyond man to
discover for himself. What is your understanding?

I don't understand why you are so dismissive of YEC. All it really means is
an acceptance of the Word of God as 'revelation' - as defined above. The
'positive evidence' you claim for the truth of TE runs counter to this
Word - as we have seen in recent posts. I therefore suggest that serious
questions need to be asked concerning the assumptions upon which the age of
the earth, and evolution, rest.

To assist those who may still harbour doubts concerning my claim of
'standing miracle', I have prepared a simple account of just one of its many
facets. This may be found at
http://homepage.virgin.net/tgvernon.jenkins/Simple_A4.htm. This documents
the precise mapping of prominent features of a modern artefact onto the
Genesis 1:1 number set. The implications of this remarkable event point to a
Creator who has a 'hands on' involvement in human history. And this view is
confirmed when we turn to analyse the miracle, for it appears that the
origin and development of the Hebrew language has been constantly under His
control. This realisation, of course, offers a serious challenge to RFEP.

Shalom

Vernon

www.otherbiblecode.com

PS My wife and I will shortly be off on a week's holiday, so responses to
any further thoughts you may have will inevitably be delayed. V
Received on Sun Jul 4 18:41:12 2004