Re: Racism and YEC (WAS:Four items of possible controversy)

This subject is best ignored. It has nothing to do with science.

Michael
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Don Winterstein
  To: jan@dekoning.ca ; asa@calvin.edu ; RFaussette@aol.com
  Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 9:48 AM
  Subject: Re: Racism and YEC (WAS:Four items of possible controversy)

  Rich wrote:

  "What Don does not realize is that destroying other religions is the essence of Judaism. It is the core of the Old Covenant. You just have to read it, you don't even have to interpret it."

  Anyone who's at all familiar with the OT knows about those genocidal directives, and we deal with them in our various ways. We also know that the Israelites often did not follow through on directives to drive out the nations with their abominable religions even at the beginning. The book of Judges gives ample evidence (e.g., Judges 1:25-2:3). We know further that Israelites pursued such policies weakly if at all in their later history, especially if "destroying other religions" applies to religions outside their borders (which doesn't seem to be the case). Furthermore, nothing in my experience suggests that contemporary Jews around the world are suddenly trying to revive those directives and destroy Christianity. Theories about how Jews are conspiring to run the US government and control the world, etc., have been cropping up from time to time for as long as I can remember, but I dismiss them all as hate-based.

  Rich: "If the Jews were to lead us away from the Levitical prohibitions like the Pied Piper via the media, and that led to our demise as a distinct people (as you say the Jews are right to strive to remain!) would that qualify for you as an example of Judaism destroying of our religion?"

  Well, I've kinda gotten away from some of those Levitical prohibitions on my own; it wasn't because of any Jews. Furthermore, Jews don't have that kind of power over me and I can't imagine they ever will. I don't buy every time I see a commercial.

  Don

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: RFaussette@aol.com
    To: dfwinterstein@msn.com ; jan@dekoning.ca ; asa@calvin.edu
    Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 10:12 AM
    Subject: Re: Racism and YEC (WAS:Four items of possible controversy)

    In a message dated 11/26/03 5:19:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, dfwinterstein@msn.com writes:
      Rich wrote:

      "we are talking about whether there are real racial differences that would enable one group to dominate another and there are. We are being progressively dominated by a people who practice an ancient religion that destroys other religions. The secret of their success is eugenics."

      People have hated Jews for as long as there have been Jews. Europeans have made an industry out of this hatred for centuries, and it appears to be thriving still. I suspect a lot of the hatred stems from the outsized impact that Jews have had on every civilization and culture they've been immersed in. Jews have often overcome the obstacles that others have deliberately put in their way and made their influence felt in extraordinary ways. I admire and respect them for that.

      However, if they're having any success in destroying our religion, then it must be due to our own failures. After all, Christianity itself is trying to destroy all other religions in that its expressed intent is to convert everyone in the world to its way of thinking. Islam likewise. If external appearances count for anything, both Christianity and Islam are more forceful in their efforts to convert people than is Judaism; so it seems the Jews should be more fearful of us than we of them.

      Assuming the Jews are actually having any success in "dominating" us, I'd venture the success stems more from their culture than their high IQ's; more from their adherence to their traditions and their resultant sense of group identity than from eugenics. It's widely accepted that someone with a moderate IQ who applies himself will outperform someone with a high IQ who doesn't. Jews seem more successful than many other groups in motivating their children to perform, to make an impact on the world. I attribute this far more to their values than to their physical attributes.

      And I for one do not feel the least bit threatened by Jewish successes. I don't perceive Jews as constituting a monolithic entity that's out to get me and my religion. Rather, more often than not they are an oppressed and hated minority doing their best to do their best, all the while working hard (in many instances) to preserve their identity as a distinct people.

      Don
    In response to Don's comments:

    I have made no comments regarding my personal feelings, such as hatred of anyone or my jealousy of anyone, so most of this testament to the Jews I can ignore.

    I agree with Don that it is due to our own failures that Judaism has any success in destroying our religion. What Don does not realize is that destroying other religions is the essence of Judaism. It is the core of the Old Covenant. You just have to read it, you don't even have to interpret it.
    Eugenics is in Jacob's breeding of Laban's flocks and in today's reality of ashkenazi IQ differentials. You can't have those differntials unless you have selective breeding. NO more need be said. It's exhaustively attested in the Biblical and historic literature. I've presented quotes from best selling books on the subject to no avail.

    If the Jews were to lead us away from the Levitical prohibitions like the Pied Piper via the media, and that led to our demise as a distinct people (as you say the Jews are right to strive to remain!) would that qualify for you as an example of Judaism destroying of our religion?

    I am not threatened by Jewish success. I am disheartened by Christian misunderstanding of plain scriptural language.

     “The land which you are entering and will possess is a polluted land, polluted by the foreign population with their abominable practices, which have made it unclean from end to end. Therefore do not give your daughters in marriage to their sons, and do not marry your sons to their daughters, and never seek their welfare or prosperity. Thus you will be strong and enjoy the good things of the land, and pass it on to your children as an everlasting possession.”

    Could it be any clearer?

    The Jews are not a monolithic group. I never said that. That is an oversimplification of the tripartite sacrifical system, shared by the Indo-Aryans of the Rg Veda and Judaism by way of Zoroaster. It is not monolithic but organized by function.

    The rest of your post is a description of the world you would like to live in, not the world that is.

    rich faussette
Received on Thu Nov 27 08:36:47 2003