From: Glenn Morton (glennmorton@entouch.net)
Date: Mon Sep 22 2003 - 07:20:56 EDT
Hi Richard, I am changing the thread topic.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard.Kouchoo@firstdata.com.au
>[mailto:Richard.Kouchoo@firstdata.com.au]
>Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 12:28 AM
>To: Glenn Morton
>Cc: asa@calvin.edu
>Subject: RE: Capuchin's show sense of justice/fair play
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>You don't ever seem to answer questions. I don't know how you deal with
>sociopaths like my mother, who had no conceience. I don't know who your
>favorite philosopher is. I don't even know why you keep calling me names.
>(Walter Hicks, are you listening in). With every note you fly a little
>closer to the sun. Come back down a bit and lets DISCUSS things rather than
>have a monologue accusing me of all sorts of things. My my,
>genocide? wow.<<<
>
>Glenn,
>
>Implications are all important.
>
>Genocide is just an example, an implication, of your proposed evolutionary
>development of morality. Why should some groups not destroy others
>if it's good
>for their evolutionary advancement - survival is the game in this
>scheme. Nazis
>used this kind of reasoning to excuse their immorality.
This clearly shows you haven't gone and looked at the original issue of Mein
Kampf. You have just believed YEC propaganda, which is sadly wrong here as
well. The original edition of Mein Kampf has the following statements sent
to me by a friend and I checked him out.
AH> [...] and this planet will, as it did thousands of years
AH> ago, move through the ether devoid of men. (p. 65)
The second edition, a footnote states, substitutes "millions" for
"thousands".
AH> By helping to raise man above the level of bestial vegetation,
AH> faith contributes in reality to the securing and
AH> safeguarding of his existence. Take away from
AH> present-day mankind its education-
AH> based, religious-dogmatic principles-or, practically
AH> speaking, ethical-moral principles-by abolishing this
AH> religious education, but without replacing it by an
AH> equivalent, and the
AH> result will be a grave shock to the foundations of their
AH> existence. We may therefore state that not only does
AH> man live in order to serve higher ideals, but that,
AH> conversely, these higher ideals also provide the premise
AH> for his existence. Thus the circle closes. (pp. 379-380)
Home schoolers don't want children's education separated from religion
either. I am not saying that homeschoolers are dangerous. But I am tired of
people who haven't read Mein Kampf claiming that Hitler was motivated by
evolution simply to use that falsehood to bash evolution. Hitler was a
creationist pure and simple.
AH> Thus, it [the folkish philosophy] by no means believes
AH> in an equality of races, but along with their difference
AH> it recognizes their higher or lesser value and
AH> feels itself obligated, through this knowledge, to
AH> promote the victory of the better and stronger, and
AH> demand the subordination of the inferior and weaker
AH> in accordance with the eternal will that dominates this
AH> universe. (p. 383)
Where does 'eternal will' fall into Darwinian theory???? This was Hitler's
religious stance, not evolutionary stance.
AH> The undermining of the existence of human culture by the
AH> destruction of its bearer seems in the eyes of a folkish
AH> philosophy the most execrable crime. Anyone who dares
AH> to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits
AH> sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this
AH> miracle and contributes to the expulsion from
AH>paradise. (p. 383)
AH> A folkish state must therefore begin by raising marriage
AH> from the level of a continuous defilement of the race,
AH> and give it the consecration of an institution which is
AH> called upon to produce images of the Lord and not
AH> monstrosities halfway between AH> man and ape. (p. 402)
AH> Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will
AH> of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am
AH> fighting for the work of the Lord. [original italics]
. Adolf Hitler, from "Mein Kampf", translation by Ralph Mannheim.
Hitler clearly believed in creationism. And he used his religious stand to
go after the Jews.
>
>Please stop telling me that I 'name-call'. I haven't done anything
>of the sort.
>If you want me to get off this list, ask me nicely, and I'll be on my way.
Boy, once again a reading problem. I never said I wanted you to leave. I
want you to stay and actually discuss substantive issues. And I would like
you to stop running down chains of logic you THINK apply to me when they
don't. I would like you to get the facts right like Hitler above was
initially a creationist. After all, going from Capuchin's not liking their
neighbor getting more food for the same task to thinking I believe in
genocide is quite a logical leap--I would like you to stop that as well. But
leave the list? never. Stay and discuss things as long as you wish.
And you still didn't answer the questions I asked. What about humans who
have no concience? I will not ask who your favorite philosopher is again. It
clearly isn't Hitler since you have never actually read him.
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