From: Walter Hicks (wallyshoes@mindspring.com)
Date: Sun Sep 21 2003 - 22:56:54 EDT
I meant to say:
When ASA members learn to present the truth of
science in a fashion that conveys the points
without being abusive and in a manner that can be
readily understood, then progress might be made.
What I see on this list does NOT meet the mail.
IMO
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Questions to Allen Roy
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:53:40 -0400
From: Walter Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>
To: Sarah Berel-Harrop <sec@hal-pc.org>
CC: asa@calvin.edu
References: <NNEEIFFNLGKNEKMJFBOBIELCCCAA.glennmorton@entouch.net>
<3F6E4BFF.CA8DD42B@mindspring.com>
<000c01c380ab$741e1f80$6281b4ce@halpc.org>
Let me be clear, Sarah.
I mention my daughter specifically to personalize
it. I really do resent generalizations like
Glenn's. To demonize YECs is to lower yourself to
the level they are portrayed to represent.
I am not referring to my daughter when I mention
people who basically believe in a Young Earth
outlook. They seem to represent most (but not all)
of the parishioners in my church -- and they do
NOT have the hostile attitude that most on this
list portray as the norm for a belief in a literal
Bible. They were simply raised on the Bible and
take those words at face value. Popular literature
portrays science as opposed to Christianity, so
what can you expect? Expect YECs to embrace
evolution when the Prophet is Dawkins? Even with
that, my views are respected.
My church has a web site that lists various
"resources". I have been working for some time to
get ASA listed and it is nearly a "done deal". My
hope is that they will see intelligent discussion
that makes them feel like they are respected as
Christians -- and not a lot of criticism that
makes them feel that they are looked upon as
bunch of illiterate fools. The material on the ASA
site is generally good.
It is the discussions on this list that belittle
people. My hope is (should the site be listed)
that nobody hears what I have been hearing. In
fact, if I "had my druthers', Terry would can any
posts of this nature. I would love to see only
intelligent and POLITE discussion, rather that
what has been posted lately.
The Christian message is for all folk. If they
happen to accept what some call a "mother goose"
outlook and still know the Lord, then that it is
acceptable in my eyes -- as long as they are more
tolerant of scientists than scientists here are
tolerant of them.
When ASA members learn to present the truth of
science in a fashion that conveys the points
without being abusive and in a manner that can be
readily understood, then progress might be made.
What I see on this list does meet the mail. IMO
Maybe I was wrong. Perhaps ASA is for scientists
only and I erred in asking that it be listed on
the Church's web site. If anyone thinks so, let me
know and I can reverse the process.
Walt
Sarah Berel-Harrop wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Walter Hicks" <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>
>
> To: "Glenn Morton" <glennmorton@entouch.net>
> Cc: "Josh Bembenek" <jbembe@hotmail.com>;
> <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 8:10 PM
> Subject: Questions to Allen Roy
>
> > Allen:
> >
> > Glenn Morton wrote:
> >
> > snip
> >
> > >
> > > Having spent 20+ years as a YEC, I can
> assure you that I have a pretty
> good
> > > understanding of their position. I published
> 30 items arguing for YEC.
> What
> > > I said above is fair because they take a
> single interpretation of
> scripture
> > > and assume that it is GOD's interpretation
> and expect everyone then to
> > > accept it. When you add the 'us vs. them'
> attitude they engender, you
> get a
> > > world view in which they believe they are
> the standard of truth and in
> which
> > > anyone who disagrees with their standard is
> a 'son of satan' (a term I
> have
> > > been called by them).
> >
> > To me this is like condemning all italians
> after being mugged in an alley
> by one
> > some time in the past.
> >
> > Several questions to Allen Roy:
> >
> > Is this really the way that _YOU_ feel?
> > Do you think that Glenn's assessment is
> correct -- or does he just know a
> > narrow subspace of YECs?
>
> Well one thing to note,
> Glenn states here he was publishing pro-YEC
> scientific work. As such, he must have had a
> higher profile among professional YEC's - by
> this I mean people like AIG & ICR as opposed
> to people like your daughter. OF COURSE
> they are going to turn on him when he rejects
> these views. He was an active proponent of
> the views in question. They knew who he
> was and they needed to make him appear
> to be uncredible in order to maintain their
> own credibility in the eyes of people who
> respected Glenn's views. Correct me if
> I got the politics wrong here Glenn.
>
> Is that a narrow subspace? Well, probably. Is
> it significant that professionals whose life's
> work
> is to spread YEC acted like that? I think so.
> As we say in auditing, the tone is set at the
> top.
>
> Does it have anything to do with people like
> your daughter and does it reflect upon her?
> Probably not, but it's similar to the point that
>
> Aulie makes about ID in his review of Pandas
> and People. It is the existence of this silent
> majority of people who don't really know
> the facts but support a position that when
> investigated turns out to be dishonest at
> worst and negligently careless at best that
> permit
> this sort of nonsense to keep going. Do they
> have an affirmative duty to check this stuff
> out?
> I would say generally no ... if they are going
> to sit on school boards and start evaluating
> textbooks I would set the bar higher - a lot
> higher.
>
> ---
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-- =================================== Walt Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>In any consistent theory, there must exist true but not provable statements. (Godel's Theorem)
You can only find the truth with logic If you have already found the truth without it. (G.K. Chesterton) ===================================
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