From: Glenn Morton (glennmorton@entouch.net)
Date: Thu Sep 18 2003 - 07:16:39 EDT
>-----Original Message-----
>From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
>Behalf Of Richard.Kouchoo@firstdata.com.au
>Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 11:40 PM
>
>
>As has been pointed out before, these experiments (and these days there
>seems a report like this - supposedly linking human morality/language to
>animal behaviour and vice versa - on a monthly basis) only show what
>animals do in a _post-event_ situation. The behaviour is correlated to
>post-event _results_ only, and is a post-cognitive phenomenon.
I am not sure at all what you mean by this. Please define your terms. Are
you saying that humans have precognition as opposed to animals who have
post-cognition? What is that?
>
>To conclude from an experiment like this that "human's sense of justice is
>inherited and not a social construct" as these people are quick to do, is
>misplaced. The only viable conclusion could be that animal 'morality' (more
>accurately behaviour) is a results-based one.
On a purely observational basis, I can't prove that you have any sense of
justice at all. All I can do is observe your behavior. There is no
difference between how we infer humans have a sense of justice and how we
determine this for animals. Even language doesn't help us much here. Just
because you say you have a highely developed sense of justice doesn't make
it so. You might be a sociopath, you might be a robot who goes around
proclaiming to all that you have a highly developed sense of justice.
Behavior is all I can use to determine your value system, and you might be a
robot programmed for the right behavior to fool me.
>
>What these experiments can never do is to show the pre-meditative state of
>animals and this is where humans come in.
Shoot, I don't know if you have a pre-meditative state, whatever the heck
that is. prove to this group you have a pre-meditative state--after you
define your term.
>
>Human beings seek justice for its own sake, not to get better quality food.
>The sense of justice, real pre-meditative justice, can never evolve.
Oh??? Have you ever compared salaries with your co-workers who are doing the
same job? what do you feel like when you don't get as much as they?
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