Re: Comment's on Allens postings

From: Graham Morbey (gmorbey@wlu.ca)
Date: Fri Jul 19 2002 - 11:42:01 EDT

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    yet without sin?

    On Fri, 19 Jul 2002, george murphy wrote:

    >
    > Allen Roy wrote:
    >
    > > From: "D. F. Siemens, Jr." <dfsiemensjr@juno.com>
    > > > What Allen posted concerning the soul is standard SDA teaching, usually
    > > > described as "soul sleep." I consider the claims special pleading. The
    > > > nonreductionistic monism of Nancey Murphy and others happens to overlap
    > > > it. As I and Paul noted some time back, the latter group
    >ignores all the
    > > > scriptures that do not fit their view.
    > >
    > > It isn't clear whom you mean by "the latter group." If you are
    >refering to
    > > SDAs, I'd be happy to consider the scriptures that "do not fit
    >their view."
    > >
    > > I will here go further and state
    > > > that nonreductive monism cannot accommodate the incarnation. I have
    > > > submitted a paper to EPS arguing this point.
    > >
    > > The incarnation was unique. Jesus was fully God who took on human nature,
    > > and so, was also fully human. Unlike us, He had a dual nature
    >-- divine and
    > > human, but he never used his divine nature while living on earth. He
    > > depended fully upon the Father for everything. Because Jesus is
    >God, there
    > > is no way that he could become exactly like us -- of a single nature. He
    > > was Divine, that put on humanity. We are just human.
    > >
    > > Jesus was tempted just as we all are, in all ways. It may even have been
    > > harder for Him to live a life of full dependence upon God,
    >because He could
    > > have done things on His own that we could never do. For instance, Satan
    > > tempted Him to turn stones to bread so that He could abate his
    >hunger. That
    > > would never be a temptation for any of us because we could not turn stones
    > > to bread no matter how hard we tried.
    > >
    > > Jesus' dual nature in no way implies that we have a dual nature.
    >Salvation
    > > does not require for Jesus to quit becoming divine to become human. All
    > > that matters is that he lived a sinless human life only using the same
    > > resources that are available to us.
    >
    > I don't know if anybody in this discussion is making the
    > error I'm going
    > to point out but it's worth noting because it is common. Even C.S.
    > Lewis, as he
    > later admitted, came close to it at one point.
    > The classical teaching that Christ is one person in two
    >natures means
    > that both his human and his divine natures were _complete_ - i.e., there is
    > absolutely nothing proper to genuine humanity or genuine deity that
    >is missing.
    > The divine Logos did _not_ take the place of the mind, soul, spirit &c or
    > anything else in Christ. He had a fully human body, mind, and
    >everything else
    > that pertains to human nature. Just what everything _is_ that
    > pertains to human
    > nature is an anthropological question that doesn't have to be
    >settled in order
    > to make this statement. If we have souls then Jesus does. If we
    >are body-soul
    > unities then so is Jesus.
    >
    > Shalom,
    >
    > George
    >
    > George L. Murphy
    > http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
    > "The Science-Theology Interface"
    >



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