RE: Adam from Dust

From: Dick Fischer (dickfischer@earthlink.net)
Date: Thu Jul 18 2002 - 12:21:25 EDT

  • Next message: Glenn Morton: "RE: Adam from Dust"

    Glenn wrote:

    >Dick Fischer wrote:
    >
    >>Acts 17:30: "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now
    >>commandeth all men every where to repent ..."
    >
    >Dick, is it your strategy to follow a comment like Dave's with a
    >non-sequitur so that people will be too distracted by trying to figure out
    >why you said what you did and then won't notice that you didn't answer the
    >question? You took the verse way out of context.
    >
    >"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine
    >being is like gold or silver or stone--an image made by man's design and
    >skill. In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all
    >people everywhere to repent." Acts 17:29-30 niv
    >
    >He is talking about idolatry--which requires a real human being for its
    >occurrence. He is not speaking of whether or not the pre-Adamic people are
    >humans. Nor does this say that they weren't humans.

    I agree! All the Bible is about real human beings. Nothing about
    hominids, Australopiticines, Homo erectus, or any of that bunch.
    Speculation about what constitutes a human being beyond sheer
    anatomy, is just that - speculation. Speculation about what God did
    with them is still speculation.

    Here's what I said in the book:

    ìIf we consider the possibility that human beings evolved, when or
    how did we become endowed with souls? A certain unease can come with
    the idea of sharing common ancestors with creatures more hairy. Most
    would prefer to think that man was specially created, thus barring
    descent from any oddball ancestors. It fits our prideful nature. It
    might do us good to ponder the likelihood of humbler beginnings.

    If we had a choice, we might think it is more desirable to be direct
    descendants from Adam and Eve, who were created without ancestors.
    We could say that because of our unique origin, we had "souls" (some
    prefer "spirit"), and all those lesser quality evolved creatures like
    Homo habilis, Homo erectus, and the curious Neanderthals were used as
    models perhaps, or experimental prototypes.

    How do we get those wonderfully unique and redeemable (or punishable)
    souls? Are we endowed with souls because of direct descent from
    specially created ancestors? That has been the traditionally
    espoused rationale, but in essence, it works no better than gap
    theory.

    All living mammals, including man, carry the potential for life to
    bring about further offspring. Until union takes place between an
    egg and a sperm, there is no physical being capable of further
    replication. Life, as evidenced by cell division, commences at
    conception.

    If a "soul" came from the man, we would have to postulate little
    potential souls as an integral part of each one of countless billions
    of sperm cells which do not exist in any form until the human male
    reaches puberty. After that, these are produced throughout a man's
    entire life. Would human males manufacture souls continually to
    accompany tiny sperm cells? That looks doubtful, so how about the
    woman?

    Women are supplied with hundreds of eggs at birth. After puberty, a
    woman releases an egg approximately every 28 days until she reaches
    menopause. Do those eggs come prepackaged with souls too? If so,
    far more end up in waste treatment plants than in choir lofts. That
    is not God's plan. We must differentiate between the material and
    the spiritual.

    Our DNA, and all that is associated with our life-producing
    capabilities, are simply physical processes for producing physical
    beings. It is hard to imagine any spirit entity intertwined with the
    potentials of life. When union takes place, that is a different
    story. But how spiritual souls match up with physical bodies is
    anybody's guess. Are souls allotted at conception; handed out at
    "viability"; assigned at birth; imparted at an arbitrary age of
    reason; bestowed at an arbitrary age of accountability; conferred at
    the acceptance of Christ's Lordship; or none of the above? If anyone
    knows the answer, please step forward.

    The spiritual world is almost entirely out of bounds for human
    investigation. The angelic hosts, who exist without physical bodies,
    are living entities in a real sense just as we are. They think,
    interact with humans as "ministering spirits," have free will, and so
    forth.

    Whatever part of us belongs to the spirit realm may be wrapped up in
    our material selves to some degree, but clearly we exist apart from
    our physical bodies, inasmuch as we were known before the
    "foundations of the earth," and glorified bodies will be conferred
    eventually.

    We can gain some insight from Jacob and Esau (Gen. 25:20-34). In a
    sense, Esau was condemned from the beginning because his life's deeds
    were already pre-known to an omniscient God. Souls capable of
    redemption were part of the make-up of both brothers. Both were in
    the Adamic-Abrahamic line. Yet Esau's celebrated ancestry offered no
    guarantee of redemption for his soul. This suggests that redemption
    and Adamic ancestry are two separate issues, and are not
    interdependent.

    If there is no commonly accepted theory as to how humans would get
    souls, even for direct-line descendants from a specially created
    forefather who presumably had one - Adam, not knowing how humans with
    evolved ancestry would be imbued with souls is no worse case. The
    prospect of nonhuman ancestors complicates no further what is already
    a perplexing issue.

    It makes no difference how our predecessors got here. The subject of
    souls is perplexing regardless of our ultimate origins; however, this
    should not be a source of consternation. John 3:15 assures, "That
    whosoever believeth in Him should not perish ..." A soul or spirit
    capable of redemption is expressly implied in that "whosoever." The
    Bible does not say whosoever believeth, and has Adamic ancestry,
    should not perish.î

    Dick Fischer - The Origins Solution - www.orislol.com
    ìThe Answer we should have known about 150 years agoî



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