From: "John Burgeson" <hoss_radbourne@hotmail.com>
> A fair question, Allen. Of course I had already acknowledged the working
of
> the HS.
> When I wrote "the above is empirically untru," I had in mind the
> multiplicity of denominations, most of whom assert that the HS has led
THEM
> into the truth, and, by implication, all the rest are necessarily wrong.
To be sure most will say that they have been led into the truth by the HS.
The question remains how does one determine what is truth. If everyone
were truly led by the HS, then there would not be a multiplicity of
denominations. The fact is that there are usually factors other than
Biblical by which certain 'doctrine' are developed and held.
> If you read my earlier post today, you know that I and my family have been
> favored by being part of at least ten different Protestant denominations
as
> we traveled around the country with IBM. In each of these I have found
good,
> devoted, scholarly, committed Christians. I could assume, of course, that
at
> most one set of these people were "on track" but that would necessarily
> imply that the other nine were not "listening to the spirit." I cannot
make
> that assumption.
I agree that there are committed Christains who are living to the best of
their ability and knowledge in the Word in all denominations. But that does
not mean that everything they hold as true is true. Nor does in mean that
God has many different truths for different people at different times.
Rather, as Paul tells us in Acts 17:30 "In the past God overlooked such
ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent," God judges
us not on what we don't know but on what we do know. People can be sincere
Christains but sincerely wrong in some of their beliefs. However, God
overlooks their ignorance. It is only after a person is no longer ignroant
of Bible teachings and yet choose to reject those teachings that they run
the risk of facing judgment on the wrong side.
> I do think that the HS does lead us into biblical truth, as far as the
> essentials of the faith are concerned. But it is patently clear that he
does
> not do so wrt some truths, baptism for instance. Which leads me to
conclude
> that while baptism may be an important thing to God, He is not
particularly
> concerned how it is accomplished. That's just one example; Sunday or
> Saturday (Sabbath) worship, communion rituals, Catholic vs Protestant vs
> Orthodox, Young earth vs old earth, pre-mil vs a-mil vs post-mil, etc.
etc.
> All of these have dedicated Christians, led as best they can be by the HS,
> convinced that they are right. They cannot all be.
I am not so certain that the HS leads everyone to the beliefs they hold.
Rather, they often hold their position because of traditions. I will
provide an example from an area I am familiar with -- the Sunday/Saturday
issue. Upon who authority does that Catholic church claim its doctrines
are founded? The Holy Spirit? Or the traditions of men?
1. "Finally, at the last opening of the eighteenth of January, 1562, all
hesitation was set aside. The Archbishop of Reggio made a speech in which he
openly declared that tradition stood above Scripture. The authority of the
church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures,
because the church had changed ... [the] Sabbath in to Sunday, not by the
command of Christ, but by its own authority."
Heinrich Julius Holtzmann, "Kanon und Tradition" (Ludwigsburg: Druck and
Verlag von Ferd Reihm), 1859, p. 263 in German.
2. Q. "How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy
days?
A. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday which Protestants
allow of; and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday
strictly, and breaking most other feast commanded by the same church."
Henry Tuberville, "An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrines," 1833, p. 58.
3. Q. Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church
transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."
Peter Geierman, "The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine" (1951) p. 60.
4. Thomaston, Georgia
May 22, 1954
Pope Pius XII
Rome, Italy
Dear Sir;
Is the accusation true, that Protestants accuse you of? They say you changed
the Seventh Day Sabbath to the, so-called, Christian Sunday: identical with
the First Day of the week. If so, when did you make the change, and by what
authority?
Yours very truly,
J. L. Day
The Reply:
THE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE
180 Wabash Ave., Chicago, Illinois
(Under the Blessing of Pope Pius XII)
Dear Sir:
Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the
Christian Sunday, I wish to draw you attention to the facts:
...
We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the
bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to
guide us. We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach and guide men
through life, has the right to change the Ceremonial laws of the Old
Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We
frankly say, "yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made
many other laws, for instance, the Friday Abstinence, the unmarried
priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic
marriages, and an thousand other laws.
...
With best wishes
Peter R. Tramer, Editor
So it appears that for the Catholic Church, the HS is not the final arbiter
of truth, but rather the traditions of men. Thus, your point that the Holy
Spirit is not particularly concerned about certain issues (at least this
issue) may not be based on a solid foundation.
Allen
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