Re: At last, searching for the truth (was Re: Personality Conflict?)

From: Michael Roberts (michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk)
Date: Tue Apr 23 2002 - 16:58:18 EDT

  • Next message: Don Perrett: "RE: A matter of trust?(Or why YEC persists)"

    Totally agree with you Jan.
    n lakker reply.

    Michael
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Jan de Koning" <jan@dekoning.ca>
    To: <Asa@calvin.edu>
    Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:19 PM
    Subject: Re: At last, searching for the truth (was Re: Personality
    Conflict?)

    > At 11:00 AM 23/04/02 +0000, Jim Eisele wrote:
    > >Jan writes
    > >
    > > >What is your age, Jim?
    > >
    > >33
    > >
    > > >I am seventy-seven and have always been interested in studying
    > > >about Gen.1 and science,
    > >
    > >I respect that.
    > >
    > > >but I have never seen the "stunning correlation" between Gen.1
    > > >and science.
    > >
    > >Can I recommend a few sources?
    > >Genesis Reconsidered, Ruest & Held
    > >Genesis One and the Origins of the Earth Newman & Eckelmann
    > >Dick Fischer's work
    > >Mike Satterlee's recent post
    > >the silence of opposing arguments on this listserv
    > >the Bible (taking it seriously)
    >
    > In the first place, at the moment I have other priorities than studying
    > these books. I did study many (I suppose) similar books when I was part
    of
    > a three-year study committee for the Chr.Ref.Church. You can find my
    > position on that generally speaking in the report which we wrote and it is
    > published in the CRC's synodical report of 1991.
    >
    > Secondly, Gen.1 is part of a larger book and is so to speak an
    introduction
    > to the introduction of Genesis. Genesis is an introduction to the five
    > books of Moses, itself an introduction to the complete Bible. That means
    > Gen.1 cannot be read without referring to the rest of the Bible.
    >
    > Thirdly, Gen.1 is more like a song praising God for His work, than
    actually
    > describing the (time-)order of creation.
    >
    > Fourthly, the word "yom" is not necessarily "day", but was used as well in
    > the OT for time-periods.
    >
    > Fifthly, in Moses' books numbers cannot mean exactly what they are
    > translated as (forgive my grammar.) My uncle showed that in his book
    about
    > the el-Amarna tablets and the OT. What they do mean, and how the writer
    > arrived at them he did not know, except for saying that some say, that it
    > may have something to do with the numerical value of names. He showed
    that
    > "thousand" in the story of the fall of Jericho cannot have meant what we
    > say that "thousand" means, seeing the size of Jericho found through
    > excavations. Maybe it should be "clan."
    >
    > Sixthly, I do think studying Gen.1 unrelated to Gen.2 and even 2 - 11 is a
    > very dangerous business. Not only do you get in trouble with what you
    call
    > "science", but also with Scripture, if you go by an English
    > translation. Some words have more than one meaning in translations of the
    > Bible. "Ruach" for example is translated as "spirit", as "wind", as
    > "breath". Another word.also in Gen.1 "nephesh" is translated as "living
    > being" in Gen.1, but for example in Gen.2 often as "soul".
    >
    > Seventh, all of us, even on this list, have limited time available. So
    > discussing where Gen.1 disagrees with science is not a point, since it
    will
    > depend very much on what you think the language used in Gen.1 tries to
    > do. It is more a song glorifying God for and in His creation. There the
    > difficulty starts already. I do think some scientists have shown that the
    > order of Gen.1 and the order of "science" do not agree. For me that is
    not
    > a problem, since it is a piece of literature glorifying God for His
    > creation, and noting the place He gave us in that creation.
    >
    > Eighth, the Bible was not written to satisfy our so-called "scientific"
    > curiosity. God gave us His Word to re-connect us (and the old Hebrews)
    > with Him. That would not have succeeded (since the fall in sin came in
    > between) if He had either written it in modern English or old Hebrew to
    > exactly tell us how He did create. Consequently, Gen.1 is neither
    > "science", nor "imagination." These contrasts are not valid here.
    >
    > Ninth, but I must stop now, I have other duties too.
    >
    > Jan de Koning
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >



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