Mike wrote: I also have to agree with Glenn that animal sacrifice is animal
sacrifice.
How did Adam and his descendants sacrificing the lives of domesticated
animals show that they had "God's image" any more so than those who
sacrificed the lives of bears and other animals to God in earlier times? I
don't understand this at all. Maybe you can explain it to me.
You are right. sacrifice is sacrifice. This action alone does not determine
ones spirituality. If so, I guess we need to get busy killing some animals.
My question to you would be, regardless of whether man was performing
sacrifices prior to the perceived time of Adam, do you feel that preadamites
knew the God that we worship today? If so, then what verse of the Bible
would you use to support this? just because preadamites may have performed
religious acts and had a belief in a higher power or god, does not mean that
they worshipped the God of Abraham. It is my position that Adam as you said
is a representative. This is the point which Dick and others make. Adam came
along after man had already been here and he was the first one to know of
the God we worship today. If you don't see this, let me give another
example. Hindis over time continue to add new gods into their beliefs. A god
worshipped by some today did not "exist" in the past. Pagan religions that
existed in prehistoric times, that generally was based on elemental gods, is
not the same as ours. I pray that you would at least recognize that. No one
is claiming that religion started with Adam, around 7kyr ago. What is being
defended is the idea that our religion and the understanding of a one true
God of creation started with Adam. If you're unclear on this, ask Glenn what
the name of the god was that the bear killers worshipped. Somehow I don't
think it was the same. In fact he quotes northern tribes(eskimo). Take a
trip to Alaska one of these days, as I have. The locals will tell you they
worship elemental gods to this day. I know you don't think this is the same
god we worship. In conclusion, if you wish to prove that the God of Abraham
is the same god worshipped by these Neanderthals or Eskimos, etc then please
do so. I would love the insight. But if you agree that ours is a more recent
and unique God from the ancient religions, then please point to when this
began. 1.5myr ago? Or would it seem more likely that based on history and
the Bible it is around 7kyr ago? The difference between us is not that
great. Some take the point that Adam brought a new dimension to the
understanding of God, as did Jesus. He was not the first man, but the first
to know God. Others seem bent on trying to prove that Adam was the first
man and first to know god. Of these some will say that either Adam was much
further in the past than is accepted by biblical interpretations. Or, they
will say that Adam was not the first man and was not the first to know god
because man seems to have been around for so long. Which is how I take what
you were saying. While it is true that the word adam can mean man and not
necessarily ADAM, this begins to have a problem when it comes to the
genealogy. It most likely applies to Genesis 1, but it becomes difficult to
take as generic man after that, not impossible. This is also how "we" take
it.
Not necessarily for you MIKE: On a more general note: It seems that many are
in disagreement on various things. Someone makes a point on one thing and
the other answers with comments on another. We can't seem to even talk about
the same fruit let alone the same apple. I cannot say what others may try to
gain from these discussions, but I myself want to gain more knowledge and
understanding. In doing so, I hope to be able to be more convincing to
atheists and other non-believers. Convincing anyone on the ASA that already
believes in God is unfruitful. Although some would say that trying to match
history and science to the bible is pointless, can anyone show a passage in
the bible that says it's wrong? If so, please do. If not then accept the
fact that while each of us has our own goal and purpose in life, some are
here to strengthen God's word through current scientific knowledge. Those of
you that can understand and accept this, please show your understanding by
either debating the specifics that others hold or confer these findings. I
personally hate political rhetoric and it seems that too many are tied up in
it. Even some of the brightest seem to love pointing out how wrong someone
is but not being specific. I feel like I'm back on the elementary school
grounds. It would be much more fruitful for everyone to just pitch in and
make an effort to come to a conclusion that is understood by the majority.
This of course means that if one has an objection, it should be pointed out
specifically and an offering of substitution must be made. One cannot just
say "your wrong" because of something, without saying what is the correct
idea. Does anyone, that has children, tell their child what they do wrong
without telling them how to do it right. How would anyone learn if the
teacher or parent didn't tell you the right way. YOUR WRONG< YOUR WRONG<
YOUR WRONG. Boy wasn't that easy. Of course I don't know what's right so
therefore I should not speak. It is also difficult when one asks a question
out of genuine curiosity and someone else jumps in and tells you how
ignorant your are or how unimportant your question is. If someone does not
like the question either because it is based on a lack of knowledge or they
just don't see it's importance, the best thing to do is nothing. Trust me,
if you just ignore someone it works. My point here is that the level of
intelligence on the ASA is high but sometimes the level of etiquette is very
low. If anyone thinks that they can maintain a degree of intelligence while
showing how little they have by using personal attacks, they're wrong. I
realize this has been a long speech, for which I would reward those that
have thus far endured. The only reason I am so concerned is because I worry
for our youth and our future. If we cannot agree about the very same God we
worship, how can we begin to hope for peace with people that have a totally
different god of worship, or none at all.
Thanks for the time, ladies and gents.
Don P
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Mon Apr 22 2002 - 18:56:44 EDT