I believe that the Bible appears to say both that Adam was the first man
AND that he is the first man to know God. My mind is open on this question,
however, and I am considering Dick Fisccher's and Glenn Morton's positions
among others.
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Perrett [mailto:don.perrett@verizon.net]
Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 4:02 PM
To: Shuan Rose
Cc: Asa@Calvin. Edu
Subject: RE: How and when did we become "men"?
While I appreciate your correcting in the linguistics of God's name, this
did not answer my question. Do you believe that the god or gods worshiped by
preadamites is the same God that we worship. I'm not asking name here.
Regardless of what one may call God, Allah, Jehovah, God, etc, they at lest
are the same God of Abraham. Again I will state without your direct
response, that the gods worship by early hominids is not the same as that of
Adam forward. I conclude that this is what is meant by Adam being the first
to know THIS God. Even today there are those that do not believe in God,
although they may believe in a god.
Concerning your statement: "The Bible does say that Adam was the the first
man that knew God, but the majority interpretation has always been that
this was so because Adam was the first Man." Is this to imply that you
believe that Adam was the first man, or that the Bible is incorrect in him
being the first to know God?
Don P
-----Original Message-----
From: Shuan Rose [mailto:shuanr@boo.net]
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 12:47 PM
To: Don Perrett
Cc: Dick Fischer
Subject: RE: How and when did we become "men"?
I I would say that man did not begin to worship YAHWEH as such
until the Israelites did it at the time of the Exodus. The Consensus among
Biblical Scholars was that before the Exodus(c. 1200BCE), the name YAHWEH
was not known ( Ex. 3:13-17). Abraham, Isaac , and Jacob did worship God but
under other names, such as Ed Shaddai(Gen . 17:1).The Bible does say that
Adam was the the first man that knew God, but the majority interpretation
has always been that this was so because Adam was the first Man.
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Perrett [mailto:don.perrett@verizon.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 6:29 PM
To: Shuan Rose
Cc: Dick Fischer
Subject: RE: How and when did we become "men"?
I agree with you, however the more specific question is at what point
did man begin to worship YAHWEH. While there may have been religious beliefs
and practices going back prior to Adam, he alone was the first to follow the
God we know today. This is the point made by Dick. Worship of elements,
which was probably in practice many thousands of years prior, as you point
out, is not the same as a more personal deity we now know. Back your points
are well taken.
Don P
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
[mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On Behalf Of Shuan Rose
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 4:26 PM
To: MikeSatterlee@cs.com; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: How and when did we become "men"?
Dear Mike,
Interesting question. The question of when did Man become Man and
what that even means has been explored in a number of books by just about
every major paleoanthropologist over the past decade. Most believe that
anatomically modern humans began 100,000 years ago , but many insist that
these people did not start acting like human beings until 50, 000 years
ago.By this, they mean creating art, spirituality, innovation, &culture.
Recent findings in central and southern Africa contradict the hypothesis
that there was such a long haitus between the appearance of modern anatomy
and the appearance of modern behaviour.
Another way of putting it would be, When did Man first become a
spiritual being?We cannot know for sure, but a good starting point may be
when humans began to exhibit the first signs of spiritual belief.The first
signs of religious belief appear to come from Neanderthal burials dating
back 100,000 years ago. Some dispute whether these were ceremonial burials,
however.According to the latest genetic findings , Neanderthals were a
separate species from Homo Sapiens, so this may not count.
Evidence of burial ceremonies among Homo Sapiens date to Cro
Magnon man (c. 30,000-40, 0000 B.C.).Certainly, by the times of the ancient
Egyptians and Sumerians, there were signs that human communities had long
had a rich spiritual life.
I have read Dick Fischer's " In search of Adam"with interest but
religious feelings among humans appear to predate his date for the
appearance of Adam and I feel that humans must have known of God ( or the
gods) prior to c. 4000BC.
-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
[mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]On
Behalf Of MikeSatterlee@cs.com
Sent: Thursday, April 18, 2002 2:17 AM
To: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: How and when did we become "men"?
Dick Fischer wrote: Since you want the "image" to start before
Adam, you must
say where that begins. Any date you pick would be arbitrary - 4
million
years ago, 100,000 years ago, 10,000 years ago. You can guess,
but you don't
know.
Dick, this raises a question I had hoped to get your opinion on.
Regardless
of whether Gen. 1:26, 27 is referring to God's creation of the
human race
prior to His creation of Adam and Eve or to His creation of Adam
and Eve, I
would like to know how and when you and others on this list
believe God first
created the human race? As you say, all we can do is guess as to
the "when."
The "how" may also be a matter of some disagreement here.
I'll volunteer to go first.
I believe God "created" man by making highly evolved primates into
"spirit"
people. A "spirit person" is a person who has a spirit unlike that
of
animals, a spirit which returns to God upon our death. (Eccl.
3:21; 12:7)
Being a "spirit person" also means having the ability to
comprehend
"spiritual" concepts. Concepts such as eternity, morality, justice
and God. I
believe at some point during the physical evolution of our species
God
intervened and gave mankind the ability to comprehend such
"spiritual"
concepts. I believe God also then began giving us eternal spirits.
I believe
these were the creative acts spoken of in Gen. 1:27.
I believe our ability to think "spiritual" thoughts has, since
that time,
been inherited from our parents. However, the eternal spirits all
human
beings have since possessed may be individual gifts which God
gives to all
human beings at their births, at the time we take our first
breath. This may
have been what was pictured by God breathing the breath of life
into Adam.
(The Hebrew word "neshamah" which is used in Gen. 2:7 can mean
both "breath"
and "spirit.") If this is so, I believe it can truthfully be said
that all
human beings, before and after Adam, have been individually
"created" in the
same way that Adam was. (Adam was created from preexisting organic
material,
the dust of the earth, and had a spirit breathed into him directly
by God.)
I suspect God created the human race in this way about 100,000
years ago, at
the time scientists tell us people just like ourselves first
appeared on
earth.
I would much appreciate reading the thoughts on this subject of
others on
this list.
How and when did God create man?
Mike
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