At 06:15 PM 14/03/02 -0700, Allen Roy wrote:
>I've been on this net for several years. Perhaps I missed something. I
>keep hearing that the Bible is not a scientific text, yet I have not really
>heard a good definition of what is meant by that. So far, none of the
>responses have really dealt with defining the issue. Even Terry Gray's
>article only skirts the issue by simply stating that the Bible isn't
>scientific. Just exactly what is ment by that. And in what way could it
>have been written so that it could be scientific? I am not saying that it
>is or should be used as a scientific text.
I have said and say it again, Allan, this subject has been talked about in
many different forms, and different words. The fact is no matter how you
talk about it, basically you want (I think), read the Bible as a
text-book. Even if it is only to know how God created. The Bible is meant
for all times and all people. If you want to read the Bible in a different
way than I do, it is your right, but I say again, the Bible is not that
kind of a book. Nor does it want to tell exactly HOW things
happened. That is why I come back time and again and say, that it takes
years to talk about this subject. Gen.chapters 1 - 11 are not even a
listing of what modern North Americans call facts. God does not use our
language to people living 6000 years and more ago in the same way as he
talks to people who know a little more now. That is why I repeat again:
modern American philosophies do not understand old historic facts, and
especially they do not understand the languages used. So needed is study
of Theology (thoroughly), Christian Philosophy and not just the superficial
kind, but preferably the Philosophy of the Law Idea, because Vollenhoven
stayed very close to the Bible in his lectures, and his criticizing of old
and new philosophies, knowledge of languages, knowledge of history of
science, and the realization that languages continually change. "Truth"
used to mean faithfullness as is still visible in "troth."
Since "scientific" has a specific meaning nowadays, which was totally
unknown even a few centuries ago, it is clear that the Bible is not written
in "scientific" language. God used in the Bible spoken to people 6000
years ago a language they could understand. We should realize that we do
have to study a lot before we can say: "The Bible says this or that".
The Holy Spirit will guide us in reading the Bible, if we are willing to
spend many, many years of studying the situations about which the Bible
talks to people at a certain time. My grandfather would not even
understand the subjects we are talking about. He had a son who studied the
Old Testament thoroughly (If he had not died in a German concentration camp
he would have been professor in Old Testament), who showed how difficult it
is to see the Old Testament through the eyes of Old Testament people. For
example, how the numbers of soldiers mentioned for the fall of Jericho
compared with the ruins of the walls which fell, cannot be "true" in our
sense of the word. So something is wrong with the numbers mentioned: "Does
thousand indeed mean thousand?" "Or, does it may be mean family?" Or "must
we try to find another solution?"
Same goes for other points in Gen.1 -11. Too much to mention in e-mail
exchanges.
So here again: much study is needed, most of which is impossible via
e-mail, unless someone sets up a complete university faculty discussing:
Christian Philosophy, and the influence of secular philosophies on
exegesis. So a thorough history of Philosophy.
Old Testament and its backgrounds, and its connection with the New Testament.
History, Ancient
History of Exegesis
Old Hebrew, Arameic, Greek (old)
The background of modern philosophies in modern thinking, thus also in science.
I can not even indicate in a few words how to read one chapter of the
Bible. A life time of study is needed before we have a beginning of
understanding. Don't try to get it in a few readings. And connect bible
books with other bible books, to see the main reason why they were
written. I am sure that for us it is sufficient to know God created, in
Science we study how the steps may have been.
Good Night.
Jan
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