It may seem like just an opinion to you, that's your opinion.
Indulge me here:
Luke 24:38,39
John 6:36
John 20:29
Mark 16:17, 18
The only evidence one can offer is sincere demonstration and proof and fruition in their own life.
On Thu, 7 Mar 2002 16:07:02
robert6625 wrote:
>Stuart,
>
>Your reply is very interesting but has one fatal flaw. No evidence. What you
>have written is your opinion, but why should anyone accept it?
>
>Bob Miller
>
>> >Hi,
>> I am a little mystified. You say that Jesus is divine but not God
>incarnate.
>> You must have some shade of meaning that I have missed. Is He divine
>> sometimes and sometimes not? Paul says in Phil 2: 6 that His very
>nature is
>> divine so how can you separate it?
>>
>> I looked up some places in the scripture where Jesus and others lay
>claim to
>> His divinity, which I am sure you are familiar with, but I offer them
>in
>> catagories. They make a powerful statement and this is only a small
>sampling
>> I threw together in a hurry.
>>
>> Jesus claims divinity Jesus' enemies recognize His claim
>> The apostles claim Old Testament claims
>> John 5:20 - 23 John 5:17, 18
>> John 1:1, 14 Matt 22:43
>> John 10:30
>> Phil 2:5 - 11
>> Matt 28:17
>> John 8: 12- 59
>>
>> Bob Miller
>>
>>
>> First of all, Bob, I hope you can forgive my inclusion of your personal
>letter here in my redress
>> .
>> Now for the fun.
>>
>> Let me reiterate and expand on a statement from one of my previous posts -
>There should bea distinction between Jesus, the man, Christ Jesus, the
>saviour, Christ, the divine sonship of all mankind, and God, the
>Father-Mother or Divine Parent.
>>
>> Jesus was a man, flesh and blood, he toiled under the sun just like any
>one else on this planet. Although born under exceptional circumstances, and
>with the exception of a few remarkable instances in his youth, he led a
>pretty normal life as a Jewish boy and young man. He did not begin his
>ministry until he was a full grown man at 30 years of age. Something roused
>him to this ministry, and that was the revealing of the Christ, (Matt
>3:13-17) and the power of Truth over error (Matt 4:1-11), the fulfillment of
>prophecy (Matt3:3) and the promise of complete salvation from the claims of
>mortal existence (Matt 3:11-12), the claims of sin, disease and death. He
>knew his destiny and his mission, and he knew it would be controversial and
>that he would incur the wrath of the established religious order. But he
>would not be swayed, for he wielded the sword of Truth in defiance of all
>supposed material law(Matt 3:10). This living, practical exemplar was endued
>with the Holy Ghost, or !
>> the
>> divine Spirit of Truth, which would overcome all material error and
>establish the knowledge of the everpresent kingdom of God and His
>Omnipotence, so that all who believed (understood) on him would be saved
>(Matt 4:16)
>>
>> This man now endued with the Holy Ghost, was Christ Jesus. Christ Jesus
>was the Messiah, the saviour of all mankind, the divine exemplar, the good
>shepherd, the living water. He was anointed with the Holy Spirit to proclaim
>the Gospel unto the world, so that all men, through him, might be saved. God
>had sanctified and blessed Jesus from his conception, and had been preparing
>him for his mighty life work throughout his childhood and early adulthood.
>But he was as mortal as any of us, or else there never would have been a
>need for Joseph to flee to Egypt. And if mortal, then a flesh and blood
>human being just like the rest of us.
>>
>> Christ Jesus was to reveal the deathless reality of Life, untouched by the
>aggressive claims of mortal existence, the claims of sin, disease and death.
>He proved, through his works that Life was above and beyond this triad of
>error, as he went about healing the sick, cleansing the lepers, casting out
>demons, and raising the dead. He also taught his disciples how they could do
>likewise, and they were able to do the same healing work. How? Jesus
>revealed the Christ as the true spiritual nature of all mankind, the divine
>sonship,the immortal reflection of God's being, maintained and nurtured by
>God, and upheld by His omnipotence.
>>
>> Jesus revealed through his healing works, that man is forever held in the
>bosom of the Father, spiritually perfect and complete, never touched by the
>aggressive claims of mortal existence, which he proved as being nothing more
>than the aggressive belief of life in matter, a belief which he rebuked time
>and time again with the power or Spirit of Truth over error. He showed his
>disciples how to do this, and he expected all who followed him to do
>likewise. Yet he ascribed all power unto God, over and over. He was deeply
>humble before the source of all power (omnipotence) and prayed constantly to
>feel the omnipresence of that power and so that the omniscience of that
>power would be revealed. Omni- all. God- all-in-all, the great I am. God,
>the Father. God, the Mother. God the Divine Parent, who holds his beloved
>creation forever in His bosom. Jesus knew this, and he demonstrated it, yet
>he claimed that "the works I do, the Father doeth". (pp)
>>
>> Jesus never claimed to be God, the closest he ever came to that was when
>he said 'I and my Father are one". He meant, I am at one with my Father, he
>was referring to quality, not quantity. Man was made in the image and
>likeness of God and all that God makes is divine. But God is not in His
>creation, for man is the image and likeness of God. He is above it, looking
>over it and maintaining it. We, as followers of Jesus, need to know our own
>at-one-ment with God and how all of His creation is one with God and we will
>be endued with the same Christ spirit that Jesus had. His early disciples
>demonstrated it, and they weren't born of virgins. Jesus demonstrated the
>Christ, the true idea of God, but He was never God. God is the source of all
>being, for He is all-in all. Just as light is the manifestation of the sun,
>but the light is not that sun, so too is Christ the manifestation of God,
>but is not God himself.
>>
>> How do we achieve messiahship? We need to follow the master in the
>understanding of spirtual being and by possessing that "mind which was also
>in Christ Jesus" How do we do this? The Beatitudes are a good place to
>start. The sermon on the mount as a whole needs to be studied and lived. Why
>do you think Jesus said "Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father which
>is in heaven is perfect." Jesus knew the truth of being to be wholy
>spiritual and perfect and he showed the way to fulfill that perfect
>spirituality. His mission was to demonstrate salvation. Salvation is
>atonement or at-one-ment with divinity or God. The road to atonement is
>humility and devout obedience to see the perfect man of God's creation
>always. "Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright, for the end of that
>man is peace." God is our ever present helper in this struggle. When we
>demonstrate even a little of our God given dominion over material existence,
>we are partakers of the messiahship, the perfect m!
>> an
>> maintained by a perfect God, through the divine inspiration of Truth, Life
>and Love.
>>
>> OK, that's all for now. I would love to go over your citations one by one,
>but I hope this overview will clear the waters a little bit. Or not.
>>
>> Peace and grace to you all.
>> Stuart Kirkley
>>
>>
>> 2,000,000,000 Web Pages--you only need 1. Save time with My Lycos.
>> http://my.lycos.com
>>
>
>
2,000,000,000 Web Pages--you only need 1. Save time with My Lycos.
http://my.lycos.com
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