Commenting on various aspects of the discussion:
>>3) Virgin birth: Mary gave birth as a virgin. This is often taken (as I noted) to include _virginitas in partu_, that Mary retained her virginity in giving birth to Jesus.
>>4) Perpetual virginity: Mary remained a Virgin after giving birth to Jesus.<<
>Well, if (4) as you say, has more justification than (3), then (3) would also be well justified because doesn't (4) logically imply (3)? <
4 does not require a miraculous birth process, which I believe virginitas in partu implies (lacking references and limited in Latin chiefly to roots of scientific names). If 3 is taken to mean not only did she not have sexual intercourse before Christ's birth but that the birth process miraculously preserved the hymen, etc., then this is not a necessary component of 4.
Like Luther, Calvin accepted 4, yet today it is widely rejected by Protestants. Assigning Mary to John's care, for example, is explained by the fact that James ben Joseph and his brothers, presumed to be Mary's sons in this view, were not believers at that time. John, as a believing cousin, was a better choice.
Incidentally, immaculate conception is used to refer in Roman theology to Mary's conception rather than Jesus's. I would guess that the citation of Gen. 3 in a subsequent message was intended as a prediction of Jesus, however.
The miraculous version of 3 strikes me as out of character. As a general rule, miracles seem to be minimized-the axe head floats, but it still must be picked up and the axe repaired; the water turns to wine, but still must be taken from the jars in the back room to the guests; Moses knows in advance that the sea will part but the wind does the parting; etc. Virgin conception seems to demonstrate the miraculous origin of Jesus, but as a whole His birth and early life seems rather to emphasize humility and ordinariness, if not harsher than ordinary conditions. The incarnation itself is a drastic self-limitation. Even being born as the heir apparent to Caesar would have made the Creator physically dependent on others to feed and clean Him. A miraculous birth (s.s., not referring to conception) seems out of keeping with Jesus being just like us except without sin.
Similar considerations would apply to estimating the likelihood of miraculous activities in the course of creation.
Dr. David Campbell
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That is Uncle Joe, taken in the masonic regalia of a Grand Exalted Periwinkle of the Mystic Order of Whelks-P.G. Wodehouse, Romance at Droigate Spa
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