>From: RDehaan237@aol.com
I had asked Bob,
> How does irreducible
> complexity -- the new dimension in this case -- get added if not by divine
> action of the sort that imposes new structures on some system that was,
> presumably, unable to achieve that structure by the use of its own
> formational capabilities? If that's the way the new structure gets
> actualized, then isn't that supernatural action (Griffin sense)? >>
Bob replied:
> I think you have trouble understanding my position because of the terms you
> use to characterize it in formulating your questions. You interpreted my view
> of divine action as dealing with *structures*-- "impose new structures on
> some system," and "unable to achieve that structure" and "new structures get
> actualized."
>
> Actually, I said that divine action deals in purposes, teleonomy, complexity,
> and stages. I never used the words structure, or system, or actualization.
> Yet you ascribe them to me and that makes it difficult for us to communicate.
I employed the term "structures" because in biotic systems, that's the form
in which the information/complexity that you are concerned with appears. [I
suppose that it might also be a physicist's habit to think in these terms.]
> Perhaps I can clarify my position by adopting your terminology. Let me say
> then that what divine action adds is *new formational capabilities* to
> creation.
OK, thanks for the effort. Let's follow up on that. Suppose that God were to
add a "new formational capability" to the Creation today at 1 p.m. Would
atoms, or molecules, or cells then be able to do things after 1 p.m. that
they were not able to do before? Would the observable/measurable properties
or behavior patterns of atoms, molecules, or cells be observed to change at
1 p.m.? Is this how new, more complex structures/systems arise?
The reference to this divine act of adding "new formational capabilities"
appears several times again. [see ALL CAPS] In order to follow what you're
saying, I need to know how this relates to the manner in which atoms and
molecules actualize new structures.
> These are not random, haphazard additions. Rather, they are added
> in a planned sequence. After a given stage has completed its purposes, NEW
FORMATIONAL CAPABILITIES are added, and the transition is made to a new
stage
> of creational development. Each new stage builds on the accomplishments of
> the previous one and adds increased complexity to creation.
>
> Stage one: Prebiotic stage. In this stage the universe as a whole, and plane
> t earth in particular are made ready for the appearance of life (as seen in
> the anthropic principle and the rare earth hypothesis). There is nothing,
> however, in the prebiotic stage that would predict that single-cell life
> would be formed in the next stage. NEW FORMATIONAL CAPABILITIES needed to be
> added.
>
> Stage two: Cellular life. Divine action adds *NEW FORMATIONAL CAPABILITIES*
> to creation at this time that initiates this second developmental stage. The
> first cell is formed, and single cellular life takes off, using the abundant
> physical and chemical resources prepared in stage one.
>
> Stage Three: Complex metazoan life. Divine action adds more NEW FORMATIONAL
CAPABILITIES at this time. The result: is the formation of body plans of
the
> founders of the great animal families (phyla) that have inhabited the world
> in the last half-billion years or so. These complex metazoans employ the
> building blocks of individual cells from the previous stage, but in new and
> unpredictable ways.
>
> Stage Four: Self-conscious sentient life. Again divine action adds NEW
FORMATIONAL CAPABILITIES to complex metazoan life to form human beings.
> (Here we are let in on the cosmic secret that these human being were created
> in the image of the divine actor.)
>
> Some of these stages can undoubtedly be subdivided into finer sub-stages.
>
> How are divine action and creaturely action related? No one really knows. I
> take a cue from Rom. 4:17 in describing the actions of God, "who calls into
> existence things that do not exist." This sounds to me like continuing,
> planned divine action, not a once-and-for-all call.
Thanks for your continuing efforts to clarify your proposition for me.
Howard
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