>-----Original Message-----
>From: SteamDoc@aol.com [mailto:SteamDoc@aol.com]
>Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 12:06 AM
>To: glenn.morton@btinternet.com
>I think his point is that you need some number of years *before*
>the flood for humans to build up from the stone tool level to the
>technological level reported in Genesis. Maybe you wouldn't need
>3 million, but I think it would take some time for such a
>civilization to be built up starting with Adam and Eve in your
>scenario. So you'd have to push Adam back more than 5.5 myr,
>maybe not to 8.5 but to more than 5.51.
THank you for the correction. I obviously didn't understand what was asked.
It depends. If we beleive that God created Adam, or at least took a beast
and inserted his spirit into him, turning him from beast into some type of
human, then it is not difficult to have God give an initial understanding
of how to work things here on earth. Afterall, there is a period of time
when at least Adam was sinfree and was in direct communication with God.
But if one does want more time, there are discoveries made recently that
move the first hominid possibly back futher than 5.5 million.
“Remains of the earliest human-like animal yet found suggests that hominids
began walking upright two million years earlier than previously thought.
“Last week, two collaborating groups of researchers, a French group led by
Brigitte Senut of the National Museum of Natural History in Paris and Martin
Pickford of the College de France, and a local group from the Community
Museums of Kenya announced that they had discovered the remains of a
six-million-year-old creature in Africa’s Rift Valley dubbed ‘Millennium
Ancestor.’ It is 1.5 million years older than previous hominid finds.
“’It’s not completely human, but definitely nothing like an ape,’ Senut
told New Scientist, ’It’s really something.’ The creature’s teeth and
upright posture are key features linking it to humans, said Senut. The teeth
are small and have thick enamel suggesting that Millennium Ancestor enjoyed
a diet of thick skinned fruits.
“Study thigh bones suggest that the hominid could walk upright on two legs,
although probably not quite as we do. If correct, this means bipedalism
evolved two million years earlier than previously thought, says Chris
Stringer, an expert on hominids at the Natural History Museum in London. But
researchers would need to study the creature’s knee joints and pelvis to
confirm this, he adds. Chew marks on the bones hint that the hominid met a
gruesome end—possibly in the claws of a large cat such as a leopard.” Claire
Ainsworth, “The Oldest Strider in Town,” New Scientist, Dec. 16, 2000, p. 5
As one friend humourously noted a few weeks ago, there is a proof text for
my position: "He whose walk is upright fears the LORD," Prov. 14:2 NIV.
What more can we ask of evidence of the human spirit than bipedalism? :-)
More seriously, given the evidence for genetic contributions with hominids
going back to a million years or more (see
http://www.calvin.edu/archive/asa/200102/0014.html and
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/98/3/864
one must wonder when Christian apologetics will really beging to deal with
the anthropological data which clearly says we are connected to these
ancient people--like it or not. And by dealing with it, I mean more than the
statement that yes evolution occurred. We need to deal with the fact that we
have many of their genes, and that that at least some modern behaviors were
demonstrably on this planet during the past 3 million years. Religion can be
traced back with confidence 400,000 years, art manufacture can be traced
back 1.6 myr, care and compassion (an un-apelike trait) can be traced back
1.6 myr, stone-tool making can be traced back to a time when only
Australipithecines are known on earth--2.6 myr ago, and art recognition can
be traced bak 3 myr. Are we really advocating that these humans, who behaved
in many respects like us--reasoning, fashioning tools, making art, burying
their dead etc, were ignored by God for all this time? Are we really
advocating that all real communication between God and man began less than
5000 years ago? What about the Cromagnon who lived 50,000 years ago? What
about the Neanderthal, who left traces of a bear cult (similar deposits to
what modern men leave who also worship the bear) or the altar left by H.
erectus. If those people weren't human, yet they had a religion, it clearly
gives rise to the view that religion is nothing but an evolutionary event
with no metaphysical implications.
glenn
see http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/dmd.htm
for lots of creation/evolution information
anthropology/geology/paleontology/theology\
personal stories of struggle
>
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