Re: End of Cheap Oil

From: dfsiemensjr@juno.com
Date: Sat Jul 22 2000 - 15:19:19 EDT

  • Next message: Vandergraaf, Chuck: "RE: End of Cheap Oil"

    On Sat, 22 Jul 2000 13:07:36 +0000 Dan Eumurian <cen09460@centurytel.net>
    writes:
    > in reply to Vandergraaf, Chuck wrote:
    > >
    >
    > Chuck, Glenn and list,
    >
    > I picked a link, conveyed the question, and received this reply.
    > Hope it
    > sheds some light.
    >
    > Dan Eumurian
    > hope4you@CenturyTel.net
    >
    > Subject: Re: Total costs of solar energy
    > Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 21:54:45 -0400 (EDT)
    > From: John Michael Byrne <jbbyrne@UDel.Edu>
    > To: hope4you@centurytel.net
    > CC: Jon R Rosales <jrosales@UDel.Edu>
    >
    > Dear Mr. Eumurian,
    >
    > Thank you for your inquiry. I would welcome the lyrics of "Use It
    > Again,
    > Sam!"
    >
    > I have tried below to answer the questions posed by your colleague.
    > I
    > have
    > also copied one of our doctoral students, Jon Rosales, who is
    > currently
    > in
    > Minnesota. He can elaborate on my comments. Please let me know if
    > you
    > find
    > that responses, as they often do, generate more questions. Regards,
    > John
    > Byrne
    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    > John Byrne, Director Phone: (302) 831-8405
    > Center for
    > Energy & Environmental Policy FAX: (302) 831-3098
    > University of Delaware E-mail: jbbyrne@strauss.udel.edu
    > Newark, DE 19716-7301 USA Website: http://www.udel.edu/ceep
    > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Snip>
    > > "What are the costs, financial and environmental, of
    > producing the
    > > photovoltaic panels (including the energy required in
    > production of
    > > the silicon cells, handling and disposing of the wastes
    > generated in
    > > the production of the panels),
    >
    > REPLY: By conventional measures of cost, PV panels cost about $5 per
    > peak
    > Watt of electricity supplied. Throughout most of the US, this would
    > be
    > equivalent to $0.20 per kWh, compared to dirty coal plants which can
    > produce electricity at $0.05 per kWh ... and warm the planet. As
    > long as
    > the latter is not a cost that we address (and currently we don't),
    > dirty
    > coal plants are more "economical."
    >
    Snip

    The cost in dollars, IMO, is not as relevant as the energy cost to
    produce the PV panels (or other renewable source)versus the output. If it
    takes more energy to produce and install than is produced in its
    lifetime, it's a losing battle, especially since the energy required for
    production probably comes from fossil fuels. As an analogy, consider the
    use of ethanol to replace petroleum. I understand that it works pretty
    well in Brazil, where most of the work in producing sugar cane is done by
    inexpensive human labor. There are many workers and relatively few
    drivers, so the production is relatively energy efficient. In addition,
    it is easier to pay local help than to come up with hard currency for
    importing oil. In contrast, ethanol in the States is produced from corn,
    using large quantities of diesel fuel and little human labor. Given the
    cost of labor, it would be much worse economically to place many workers
    in the fields to cut down on the use of petroleum. But this is energy
    inefficient. In fact, I think I recall reading that it takes more energy
    to produce ethanol from corn than can be recovered by burning it. There
    may be other reasons for using ethanol or gasohol, but it is not energy
    efficiency in the States.

    Dave



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