Bryan R. Cross wrote:
>
> George Murphy wrote:
>
> > You confirm what I started with here, that there is no basis in revelation for
> > belief in the unmediated creation of life. You can call that an "argument from silence"
> > if you like.
>
> That is what it is. And there is no basis in special revelation for belief in the wholly-mediated creation of
> life either. (You have not provided any biblical evidence to that effect.) And that is all I have been trying to
> show. Special revelation does not *support* macroevolution any more than it *supports* progressive creation. For
> that reason, the question cannot be answered by appealing to Scripture. Since that is all I have been trying to
> show, and since I don't expect you will be providing any further evidence for wholly-mediated macroevolution
> from special revelation, I'm going to step out of this discussion.
>
> > & I would not claim that Genesis 1 "proves" chemical evolution, let alone
> > evolution in general. But the fact that many of the fathers understood it as meaning
> > that God created the materials of the world with the capability of bringing forth living
> > things when God wanted them brought forth, & that before any modern scientific theories,
> > seems to me significant. But perhaps the theological opinions of the fathers carry no
> > weight with you.
>
> Let's put things in perspective. Your belief in divine mutability would be of **much** more concern to the
> fathers than taking issue with a position held by a minority of the fathers about the mechanism of life's
> formation. Those rejecting a fundamental theological belief held by virtually all the fathers are in no position
> to criticize those questioning a very minor theological position held by less than a handful of the fathers.
>
> I think this particular discussion has reached the point of diminishing returns, so I'm signing off. I tip my
> hat to George for his willingness to explain and defend his position.
I agree that the discussion of natural selection &c is exhausted for now. In
closing (though anyone who wishes may respond), let me comment on the last point.
Briefly:
1) The statement that mediated creation of life is a _minority_ view among the
fathers is at best questionable. Messenger's detailed study in _Evolution and Theology_
(Macmillan, 1932 - unfortunately quite rare now) shows just the opposite. Ephrem,
Basil, Gregory of Nyssa, Chrysostom, Ambrose, & Augustine are a pretty weighty
"minority", if they are a minority at all.
2) The fathers had to struggle with the presuppositions of Greek philosophy,
including the assumptions of the superiority of being to becoming & divine immutability,
& were not entirely successful. The fact that even in that context they could speak
about genuine incarnation & talk about "the passion of my God" (Ignatius) or that "one
of the Trinity was crucified for us" (II Constantinople) is significant.
Shalom,
George
George L. Murphy
gmurphy@raex.com
http://web.raex.com/~gmurphy/
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Tue Jul 18 2000 - 14:01:26 EDT