Re: atmospheric helium help

From: Adam Crowl (qraal@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Mar 08 2000 - 04:42:30 EST

  • Next message: Moorad Alexanian: "Re: ID (fwd)"

    Hi

    The Helium loss is more through interactions with infalling ions at the
    magnetic poles. Helium pick-up by the solar wind has been directly
    observed...

    http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Launchpad/6679/life6.html

    ...just scroll down a bit to the relevant section.

    Thermal escape and direct action by the solar wind during magnetic field
    reversals also plays a role.

    Adam

    PS
    Look for the work of Krasnopolasky and co... Atmospheric physicists have
    studied the helium loss issue for more than just our planet.

    >From: Joel Duff <joelduff@nls.net>
    >To: asa@calvin.edu
    >Subject: atmospheric helium help
    >Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 21:12:23 -0800
    >
    >Hi,
    >I sent this two days ago but I never got it back and it didn't show up on
    >the archive so I will try again. I am in the middle of an exchange over
    >young earth evidences and one that I have been asked to respond to is the
    >question of the amount of helium in the atmosphere. Well, I am quite aware
    >of the typical arguments and responses but this person has included what he
    >says is more current information. Not knowing the status of
    >ionosphere/upper atmosphere research and this person being a physics Ph.D I
    >am not sure how to respond to what he is saying her. I am hoping someone
    >out there has more current information than the 1969 estimate of helium
    >escape from the upper atmosphere the usual response depends upon. I have
    >to admit I don't feel comfortable always falling back on just this one
    >estimate of helium loss. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    >
    >Joel Duff
    >
    >
    >Here is the relevent portion of the e-mail I wish to respond to:
    >
    >"+ Long agers have suggested that there must be a continual leakage of He4
    >out of our atmosphere. I've been doing simulations for 4 years and find
    >that ionospheric escape of He4 is very rare; in fact, I would be very
    >surprised if someone could tell me how it is possible that millions of
    >tons of uncharged particles can escape the atmosphere. Lighter *charged*
    >particles like H+ can escape more easily. Even He+,++ and O+, though
    >rare, can apparently escape. The dominant ionospheric source for the
    >terrestrial magnetosphere filling is H+ (and protons). That being said,
    >there is observation of heavy ions in the earth's magnetotail, near and
    >distant, but it is associated with parallel to the magnetic field
    >potential drops during magnetospheric substorms (e.g. Seki's paper in
    >Substorms-4, Kluwer, Dordrecht, 1998, p/417). For He4 to escape our
    >atmosphere requires a source of ionisation (such as during substorms
    >where electrons and protons cause ionisation in the upper atmosphere.
    >It would have to be a very special substorm, and even a very large
    >magnetospheric storm, before these magnetospheric particles can reach so
    >deep into our atmosphere that they are able to cause mass charging of
    >neutral He. Then the newly ionised He++ still has to be sucked out.... Am
    >I supposed to believe in miracles!?"
    >
    >
    >
    >

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