Not sure I understand what Bosons have to do with the dice experiment (see
below). The particles are distinguishable!
Anyway, there exists a wealth of literature on complexity and self
organization. So much so that for glenn to come up with an appropriate
example would be a waste of time (unless, of course, Glenn's business is
that of studying complexity). I suggest instead to start by searching for
articles in Phys Rev E and then go from there. Other journals that have
some good complexity stuff from time to time are Int. J. Theor. Phys and
Physica D. An author that I have found particularly useful in my own
research is J P Crutchfield, for an easy read see the article by this
author in Physica D v. 75 pp 11-54. A book which might be useful is
"Complexity, Entropy, and the Physics of Information" Edited by W. H.
Zurek and published by Addison Wesley. I don't expect people (Bert Massie
included) to accept self-organization simply on the word of a bunch of
crazy haired physicists but it would probably benefit those who would like
to argue against such possibilities to actually figure out what is the
state of the art.
BTW: Glenn's point that self organizing complexity is not a phenomena that
one would expect in completely stochastic systems is a good one. There
exists a range of phenomena between random and periodic and it is these
in-between systems that are typically characterized as "complex".
-----Original Message-----
From: Bert Massie [SMTP:mrlab@ix.netcom.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2000 4:46 PM
To: glenn morton; asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: ID
So Glenn why don't you refine this a little so that we can have some
differential equations. Tell you what, lets let the trajectories of the
die be
controlled by various laws of physics and then lets let the dice be bosons
and
then lets let this somehow represent the beginning of the universe at a
time
when bosons where available and well, perhps you could use some
imagination....
Bert M
glenn morton wrote:
> At 07:39 AM 3/4/00 -0500, Massie wrote:
> >Consider that one tossed a very very large number of dice on the table
> >and then examines the pattern of digits in groups of 100 each.
>
> THe problem with your analogy is that in self-organizing systems there
are
> connections--differential equations--which connect the various parts of
the
> system. With thousands of dice, there are no connections. They are all
> independent. Thus nothing will self-organize.
> glenn
>
> Foundation, Fall and Flood
> Adam, Apes and Anthropology
> http://www.flash.net/~mortongr/dmd.htm
>
> Lots of information on creation/evolution
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