> Here is a bit from another list. How would you answer the response I got?
> The responder is not technically a YEC, but has been influenced by Michael
> Denton. Guy Berthault is supposed to have dumped sediment into a tank of
> water and thereby showed that the sedimentary layers which we see in
> mountains can form without the top layers being more ancient than the bottom.
> Anyone ever heard of this guy''s experiment?
>
> <<Paul sez:
>
> << The fact remains that simple marine life is at the bottom of the column,
> and
> that this progresses up through amphibians, reptiles, then birds, then
> mammals, then man. The question is, What accounts for this arrangement if
> not evolution? >>
>
> Well, my problem with this is that we still have such a range of species
> living on earth, and apparently they are not considered ancestors of each
> other. The so-called 'precambrian explosion' suggests that the earliest
> marine life was shockingly diverse, more so than what we see today, and yet
> with all these new early marine finds, we just see more and more phyla, and
> not the precursors of later species, which is what we must find if any
> progression is to show evolution.
>
> I did see something of Guy Berthault's experiments on a video. He presented
> his material to a French group of some kind and got rave reviews since
> apparently no one thought to do this before. What I got from it is that
> stratification actually happens left-to-right, and not up-and-down. Which is
> exactly what you wouldn't expect. I suppose at the next meeting I can
> describe this with physical gestures if that would help!>>
>
> Paul S.
I had not read Guy Berthault, but would appreciate any link to a web site with
his work. How ever I have heard indirectly of what he claims to have achieved.
What I have hear suggests that he has demonstrated a form a self organisation
phenonenon in particulate media I should point out that formation of internal
stratification through self organisation of beds formed during a in a single
rapid event has been known for some time. I recall reading some papers on it
about 13 years ago, I think by Doric Stowe, with examples from fine-grained
turbidites. There was also an item in Nature a year or two back talking about
stratification developed in particulate media with bimodal grainsize, with
reference to bulk handing and storage of grain, ores, chemicals, etc. So
Berthault's results in principle are not surprising. However I can't comment
more specifically without reading his results.
Paul, your answer was certainly on the right track. Explaining stratification
developed in the laboratory through such phenomenon is one thing. It might be of
interest to explaining structures developed in single rapidly deposited units
(storm deposits, turbidites, tsunamis deposits, impact ejecta). I fail to see
how it can be extrapolated to whole successions, which might be 10 km thick, and
with many different rock types (sandstone, shale, limestone, evaporites, glacial
deposits conglomerates, volcanic rocks and intrusions). Not only are the fossils
zoned vertically, but also within units, forming ecological assemblages. Then
there are all the palaeocurrent indicators, unconformities which truncating
older sediments and intrusives and overlain by conglomerates derived from them,
caves filled by overlying strata, cement stratigraphies, and so on.
This sort of thing can only impress those who don't know the true nature of the
geological record.
God Bless
Jonathan